Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 9/22/09)

Postby RITmusic2k » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:42 pm

(continued from above)

To belabor a point made above, I credit Saab for their decision to stick to their turbocharged heritage. It has been their mantra for decades and it is above anything else what differentiates a Saab from most other cars on the road. They don't just take a car and put a turbo on it, they start with a turbocharger and build a car around it. In terms of Good Ideas in Automotive Engineering, a turbocharger is right up there with seatbelts and turn signals. Turbos give you better overall fuel economy while promising more usable power than you could make via any other means. You may have heard me say something to this effect before, but cylinder deactivation technologies like Displacement-On-Demand were Dead On Arrival, considering that turbocharging is Displacement-According-to-Request. It's a more effective means of achieving the same goals, without any really ugly downsides.

The thing that really sets Saab apart from other manufacturers of factory-turbocharged vehicles is their exquisite control over the turbo system. Saab invented the wastegated turbo back in the 70s and their experience since then has only improved their ability to manage these systems today. If you were to take an economy car and a sports car and draw a line between them, then the Trionic engine management system is borderline clairvoyant in its ability to dial the car into the exact point on that spectrum between the extremes that you request at any given moment. The car has an infinitely-variable character. You ask, you receive. One trick in the Viggen, in particular, exemplifies this precognitive behavior: if the drive-by-wire system detects that I'm stomping on the gas pedal as hard as I can and that I intend to floor it, it takes the initiative to snap the throttle to its full-open position immediately; it does not wait for my foot to finish the input.

I mentioned that Saab pioneered the wastegate system for controlling boost pressure; here's a partial list taken from the wikipedia page of other notable innovations for which they're responsible. It's pretty significant:

1958: The GT 750 is the first car fitted with seatbelts as standard.

1963: Saab becomes the first volume maker to offer diagonally-split dual brake circuits.

1970: Saab introduces a world-first - headlamp wipers and washers.

1971: Heated front seats are introduced, the first time in the world they are fitted as standard.

1971: Saab develops the impact-absorbing, self-repairing bumper.

1976: Saab was the first manufacturer to produce a turbo engine with wastegate to control boost.

1978: Saab introduces another 'world-first,' the passenger compartment air filter (pollen filter).

1980: Saab introduces Automatic Performance Control (APC), and an anti-knock sensor that allowed higher fuel economy and the use of lower grade fuel without engine damage.

1981: Saab introduces the split-field side mirror. This reduces the drivers blind spot.

1982: Saab introduces asbestos-free brake pads.

1983: Saab introduces the 16-valve turbocharged engine

1985: Saab pioneers direct ignition, eliminating the distributor and spark plug wires.

1991: Saab introduces a 'light-pressure' turbo.

1991: Saab is the first manufacturer to offer CFC-free air-conditioning.

1993: Saab develops the 'Safeseat' rear passenger protection system.

1995: Saab presents an asymmetrically turbocharged V6 at the Motor Show in Frankfurt, Germany.

1996: Saab introduces active head restraints (SAHR), which help minimize the risk of whiplash.

1997: Saab introduces Electronic Brake-force Distribution

2000: Saab introduces Saab Variable Compression, an engine in which the compression ratio is varied by tilting the cylinder head in relation to the pistons.

2008: Saab introduces Cross-wheel drive, an advanced all-wheel drive system with eLSD.

(to be continued)

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 9/22/09)

Postby eggwich delfiero » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:31 am

watkins wrote:The Saab community is a little more well-educated than your average vehicle-loving group.


Modest, too!

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby watkins » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:36 am

Well lets see...

We dont put ridiculous body kits on.
No stretched tires.
Most actually are adults not young people.
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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby Silverado » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:26 am

watkins wrote:Well lets see...

We dont put ridiculous body kits on.
No stretched tires.
Most actually are adults not young people.

What are you 21? You think you're an adult?

I remember you griping about Mustang owners being pricks. You're a prick.
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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby watkins » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:55 pm

Im not talking about me specifically. Im talking in general. Most Saab owners are in their late 20s, early 30s, and most definitely significantly older. Compare this to the primarily high school and college age members of Honda or VW communities, for example. Theres a whole lot more life experience in the Saab community than many others. Life experience is education. So aside from the jovial jabs I made at silly ricer trends, my original statement still stands. The Saab community is pretty well-educated as a whole.

Of course what you failed to note is that I wasnt being universally serious. If you spent more than half a second reading posts, you would have by this point caught on to the fact that Im sarcastic, honest, and I dont give a shit what people think of me. That makes me an ass, but definitely not a prick as you like to believe.

And by law, I am an adult. Trying to deny this is rather absurd. I do however like to keep things light. Maturity is something I am glad to posses, but more importantly something I can throw aside to have some fun. After all, the internets is srs bsns :roll:
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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby RITmusic2k » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Hey, it's cool guys! Watkins isn't trying to call himself mature or call anyone else immature right now (except for VW owners, every single one of whom are clearly bad people)... or anything like that. It was a side comment made because I was using excessively flowery language in these reviews here. Let's all put our guns away and get back to fawning over Saabs, shall we?

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby Silverado » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:26 pm

watkins wrote:If you spent more than half a second reading posts, you would have by this point caught on to the fact that Im sarcastic, honest, and I dont give a shit what people think of me. That makes me an ass, but definitely not a prick as you like to believe.
Considering your posts are pretty short most of the time a half second sounds reasonable to me. Besides that, I have noticed that you are an asshole.

By the way, asshole and prick are synonymous.
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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby watkins » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:04 pm

Pricks think theyre better than everyone else. Assholes dont care. Theres a distinct difference.
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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby RITmusic2k » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:31 pm

RITmusic2k wrote:Let's all put our guns away and get back to fawning over Saabs, shall we?


One more try.

Watkins, Silverado, I'd like each of you to say something nice about Saab.
Last edited by RITmusic2k on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby watkins » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:20 pm

I could go on and on just as you have been. Quite easy to do. Ill keep it simple.

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby eggwich delfiero » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:13 pm

We all love our cars. If we didn't, we probably wouldn't be on here taking driving quizzes and discussing cars.

I like this thread because it talks up Saab and what you guys like about Saab vehicles. That's cool. I like your writeups too, I have no problem with prose being a little purple, it conveys that you care about your car.

But let's not get into attacking other people's choices in vehicles or their intelligence. It isn't needed.

The demographics of new Saab buyers are obviously going to be different than VW/Honda/Mustang buyers because Saabs are more expensive. This is neither a good thing or a bad thing, and doesn't really say anything about individual owners, let alone about used car buyers, where depreciation opens up the market to more people.

By education, I am assuming you are referring to wisdom. Wisdom may come with age, but age does not imply wisdom. If it did, my dad wouldn't be such an idiot.

You may not see many "riced out" Saabs because they aren't known as a performance platform in the US and thus there isn't as large as an aftermarket for performance parts. If they were, you would see Saabs with ridic body kits. I would blame this on the FWD thing but Civics sure do have a tuner following so there goes that theory. I'm not saying Saabs don't perform well, so don't be offended. Any car can be modified to perform, it's just that certain platforms are easier to work with. The fact that you see Hondas with bodykits isn't a testament to how stupid their owners are, it speaks of the breadth of the aftermarket available for the cars. The world don't move, to the beat of just one drum...(now that I think about it, I'm betting you see more modified Saabs in Europe; price points and vehicle prevalence vary by country.)

So please, keep talking up the positive qualities of your cars, but don't crap on other models. We all love our cars and we all have our reasons. I bought a Mustang because it was the cheapest V8 I could get new with a warranty. Is it perfect? Hell no. No car is. But if they addressed it's interior/suspension shortcomings from the factory, I wouldn't have been able to afford it. From the factory, it's just a starting point to modify in whatever way you want (and yes, some people choose to go with body kits for some reason ;) ). If it makes them happy, it's cool with me.

And please, if we're going to be sarcastic, let's use the <s> sarcasm </s> tags. It just doesn't translate well in text, and the whole "I didn't mean what I wrote thing" is frustrating. This is my old manishness showing; I have great love and respect for earnestness.

For the record, my favorite Saab is the 900 SE Turbo. I liked that Turbo X from last year or the year before too, but man were they pricey.

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby RITmusic2k » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:52 pm

Very nice post, sir! The 900 SE turbo is a very well-loved car in Saab circles. The last True Saab according to many. Which is funny to say, because you can pick any Saab of any vintage, and find a group of people that will insist that it is the last True Saab. Like the Viggen, for example, which we all know was the last True Saab.

<s>Damn 2003+ GM pieces of crap!</s>

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby eggwich delfiero » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:29 pm

Lol on the bias on our own cars thing... I thought foxbody Mustangs were the only modern Mustang worthy of respect back when I owned one. Then, once I drove a 2003 Mach One, I thought that was the best and the foxes were crap. Once the new S197s came out, I thought they were derivative crap that just prayed on the nostalgia of baby boomers. Then I drove one, then I bought one. :P I suppose it's normal for us to emphasize the strengths of things we love and overlook the faults, and to be more cynical of things we have no emotional or monetary investment in.

I'm a big fan of the 9-2 X too, tho I realize they are just rebadged WRXes. Much better looking WRXes, to be sure.

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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby LHOswald » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:02 pm

eggwich delfiero wrote:But let's not get into attacking other people's choices in vehicles or their intelligence. It isn't needed.


except ricers, of any car manufacturer. i don't care if you rice out a Honda, or a f*cking Vdub bus, it makes any car look gay and the person who decided to do it should die
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Re: Attention all Viggen shoppers... (updated 10/08/09)

Postby watkins » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:16 pm

eggwich delfiero wrote:The demographics of new Saab buyers are obviously going to be different than VW/Honda/Mustang buyers because Saabs are more expensive.

Saabs are actually cheaper in many cases than most other brands. As Kevin and I have lauded many times, Saabs depreciate unfairly. For this reason, there really isnt any better bang for the buck brand out there.

My 1999 top spec car cost $5500.
Thats 225hp/252tq, power windows, power locks, dual power seats, keyless entry and security system, moon roof, steering wheel radio controls, single CD in dash, 6 disc changer in trunk, leather, heated seats, mirror defrosters, and the addition of side airbags.

Now compare that to my friend's '95 Mustang 5.slow. It has essentially none of those features and nearly identical power (I think the Viggen actually has more) and it cost him $4000. [Yes, this kid is a massive dick/redneck. Still like the guy though]

Or a 2008 Focus for $15000 with the only similarities being airbags, a single CD in dash, and trading my 6 disc for an aux-in. I dont think shaving under 130k miles and all of those features is worth nearly $10k.

Of course there is the excellent fuel economy and fun in a practical package.
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