Interesting test done by Car & Driver

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Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by 94Corolla5Speed »

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09 ... -tech_dept
Certainly the most natural reaction to a stuck-throttle emergency is to stomp on the brake pedal, possibly with both feet. And despite dramatic horsepower increases since C/D’s 1987 unintended-acceleration test of an Audi 5000, brakes by and large can still overpower and rein in an engine roaring under full throttle.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by Saabstory02 »

I always wondered about these scenarios and why people are unable to stop or kill a car; good to know that mine has a throttle kill in the event I ever needed it :shock:
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by theholycow »

With the Camry’s throttle pinned while going 70 mph, the brakes easily overcame all 268 horsepower straining against them and stopped the car in 190 feet—that’s {...} just 16 feet longer than with the Camry’s throttle closed.
I don't buy that.
Furthermore, short, frantic pressing of the Toyota’s start/stop button—the probable response in an emergency—does nothing, whereas the Infiniti kills the engine after three rapid-fire presses.
This does mitigate the feeling of "why didn't he just kill the engine".

So, with these test results, why was the off-duty cop unable to stop the Lexus?
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by LHOswald »

they say it stops all 268 horsepower, but the likelihood of it being right on the RPM mark of 268 is extremely low. more than likely it was at something more like 220 hp, but that still sounds way out of reach for stock brakes to stop while the gas is still pinned.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by RITmusic2k »

theholycow wrote:
With the Camry’s throttle pinned while going 70 mph, the brakes easily overcame all 268 horsepower straining against them and stopped the car in 190 feet—that’s {...} just 16 feet longer than with the Camry’s throttle closed.
I don't buy that.
Furthermore, short, frantic pressing of the Toyota’s start/stop button—the probable response in an emergency—does nothing, whereas the Infiniti kills the engine after three rapid-fire presses.
This does mitigate the feeling of "why didn't he just kill the engine".

So, with these test results, why was the off-duty cop unable to stop the Lexus?
Here's my thought. It's completely speculative, but it fits the data we do have:

These tests were done with fresh cars and cool brakes, and they were not repeated immediately. If the brakes were to soak up enough heat from hard braking and then the test were to be repeated, the performance would be significantly worse.

I think this cop was driving like an absolute asshole before the problem occurred. I think he was driving like a speed demon, racing right up to the bumpers of cars in front of him and braking abruptly, changing lanes and gunning it and repeating the process. I bet he heatsoaked his brakes doing this. I bet he absolutely stomped on the gas pedal like he'd been doing the entire time, and he probably didn't even take his foot off the throttle until reaching a cruising speed of ~90mph, which makes it very understandable how the car could've gotten up to the much quoted "over 100mph"... because it only would've taken a couple seconds for it to happen after he discovered the wedged pedal. I bet the brakes did slow the car a little at first, but then they took in enough heat that they could only keep the car from accelerating, and then finally they became completely overpowered and the car began accelerating again. I bet this took about 40 seconds, the entire time he spent on the phone with the 911 operator.

Had this guy survived, he'd be guilty of vehicular manslaughter. Maybe Toyota does have some flaws in their system, but this was prominently the driver's fault.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by VTECaddict »

I tested the start button thing. My car shuts off after three presses or press and hold (didnt time it though).
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by gizmo »

I never understood why people just didn't select neutral (MT or AT). So the engine blows, big deal, you live and everyone around you lives.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by theholycow »

I agree about neutral. With rev-limiters, it's not going to damage anything, unlike trying to brake against the engine which may overheat and warp your brakes.

Apparently the Lexus rental didn't have the same old interface with a shifter that moves linearly to neutral from D; instead it had some new system that, in a panic, may be difficult to figure out.

Edit: I looked it up. The Lexus ES350 has a mostly traditional console shift PRND selector and N was right there for him to use.
Last edited by theholycow on Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by 94Corolla5Speed »

gizmo wrote:I never understood why people just didn't select neutral (MT or AT). So the engine blows, big deal, you live and everyone around you lives.
Even then, it won't blow. I'm pretty sure you can run an engine at the rev limiter for 15-20 seconds until you stop and shut it off without much or any negative effects.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by Jastreb »

paul34 wrote:Also, with these cars that have throttle-brake cutoffs, does that also extend into the manual versions as well? So for example, does that mean heel toeing on an Audi is impossible?
I was able to heel-toe in the Rabbit without a problem. I'm pretty sure it is set up to cut the throttle off after some finite time of brake application. Long enough to carry out a blip.

Anyway, as has been discussed before, the brakes should win if immediately applied at maximum pressure and held until stopped. He may well have heat-soaked the brakes with several half-assed attempts to slow the car. I feel bad for auto manufacturers - they have to bow down and design around people's stupidity/incompetence.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by scionkid »

paul34 wrote:Also, with these cars that have throttle-brake cutoffs, does that also extend into the manual versions as well? So for example, does that mean heel toeing on an Audi is impossible?
I think it is a natural reaction for most manual drivers to floor the clutch when the car is doing something funny. IMO, no need to have the brake overriding the throttle here.

I tried my brake pedal with the engine at peak torque in 2nd gear. The brakes did their job on the 1st try. However, the pedal was firm on the 2nd push. You do loose your brake booster if you don't hold it down. Even then, I was able to slow the car down without boost, but that's with a left leg that used to support 250 lbs. A 100 lbs driver isn't likely to have this kind of strength.

off topic
A month ago, I test drove a Ford Fusion Hybrid. My fail ride along could not tell me if it was on or off, so I shifted to D and released the brakes. Nothing happened. As I would have done for most cars, I tried to push it from D to N without pushing the lockout, it didn't work. In an emergency like that, I just want to shove it to N, without thinking that I would overshoot it.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by theholycow »

Well, my mom's Ford Probe allowed shifting to neutral without the button, and I (as a passenger) accidentally nudged it into N once...maybe they got complaints.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by AHTOXA »

Teach people how to drive - there is a solution. There is no way I can even come close to naming myself as a great driver, but when my carpeting in the Teg made my throttle stick open there was not a doubt in my mind as to what needs to be done. Not to say I wasn't nervous but sure as hell I didn't freak out and stomp on the brake pedal on the highway doing 85 miles an hour. Yes, this happened on the freeway.

All this is a waste of money - tests, researches and other bullshit.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by Swimmerboy »

This just further emphasizes the point of having a car with a manual transmission.
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Re: Interesting test done by Car & Driver

Post by AHTOXA »

Any automatic driver should be able to switch to N, shut the engine off, make sure the ignition is turned back to "on", otherwise the steering will lock and coast to a stop.

Auto or manual - this is rather simple. Some people in this country are used to people doing everything for them, including thinking.
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