Truckers say: "Pith on it!"

All the news that's fit to shift.
Post Reply
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Truckers say: "Pith on it!"

Post by Rope-Pusher »

NAVISTAR BATTLES SCR
Fascinating fight going on in the heavy truck industry. Navistar, the big truck and diesel engine maker, is getting killed in the class-eight segment for semis. That’s because it bet on exhaust gas recirculation, or EGR, to control diesel exhaust emissions. Everyone else bet on selective catalyst reduction, or SCR, which uses urea. And that’s what truckers are buying because it’s cheaper than EGR. But Navistar accuses truckers of filling their urea tanks with water instead of urea to get around those controls. Urea costs anywhere from $3 to $5 a gallon. Bloomberg reports the EPA is going to issue new guidelines on truck emissions that could help Navistar. But right now the company is losing market share to Volvo and Freightliner which use urea to control emissions.

Truckers have to piss just like the rest of us, right? Why not fit the trucks with a funnel on the end of a hose up in the cab that empties into the urea reservoir?
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 16021
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Truckers say: "Pith on it!"

Post by theholycow »

Good idea, they'd like that better than a piss jug!

How expensive can EGR possibly be vs. SCR? I don't know how big truck diesel EGR differs from consumer gasoline EGR but I know that consumer gasoline EGR is not a hugely complex, high-tech, or expensive system.
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Truckers say: "Pith on it!"

Post by Rope-Pusher »

I don't know fur shur, but from the article it appears that using EGR is more expensive for the manufacturer, but adds no recurring costs to the vehicle owner, like the urea-based SCR technology does.

Navistar is losing sales due to their higher costs and is now accusing the truckers of not refilling their reservoirs with urea, which would negate the SCR emissions control strategy.

Will the EPA require manufacturers that rely on SCR emissions technology to install sensors that would shut down the engines if urea was not present in the tank?
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 16021
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Truckers say: "Pith on it!"

Post by theholycow »

That's the impression that I get too, but the entire EGR system in a $20,000 car costs a few hundred bucks...on a $100,000 truck how much does it cost?
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
LHOswald
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 2787
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:46 pm
Cars: '99 Civic Hatch w/B16a
Location: Enfield, Connecticut

Re: Truckers say: "Pith on it!"

Post by LHOswald »

i know the urea used in diesel applications is water based, but is there any chance you could damage your exhaust system using water instead of urea?
Image
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Truckers say: "Pith on it!"

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Water is a major by-product of combustion, so there is tons of it passing thru the exhaust system already. I'd be more interested in how you keep the water in the urea reservoir from freezing in cold weather...or how you keep urea from freezing in even colder weather. There were piss-sicles hanging from the urinal at camp this weekend!
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Post Reply