Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

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Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

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"Mazda showed off the 2012 Mazda 3 at the 2011 New York auto show this week, the first of the Mazda lineup to offer the brand's new SkyActiv powertrain technology.

The company also announced its intention to bring a diesel Mazda 3 to the U.S. market in 2014.

In the new Mazda 3, SkyActiv means a direct-injected, 2.0-liter I4 making 155 hp providing the magic 40-mpg highway figure when bolted to a six-speed autobox. Also available is a six-speed manual with improved efficiency, good for 39 mpg highway."

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011042 ... z1KHpm6mvB

On a long, interstate road trip, I'd bet my money on the dude with the beard, the suspenders and the wide-brimmed hat as getting the better fuel mileage. Hard to beat low parasitic losses of the Amish trans when you have to run a pump all the time. EPA fuel economy figures don't accurately reflect all possible duty cycles.
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

Post by theholycow »

I'd bet the manual does better in the city, not on long, interstate road trips where the slushbox can lock up and probably has a gear made specifically for efficiency at highway speed (while the 3-pedal probably lacks such a gear)...better ratios > pumping a little oil around.
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

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theholycow wrote:I'd bet the manual does better in the city, not on long, interstate road trips where the slushbox can lock up and probably has a gear made specifically for efficiency at highway speed (while the 3-pedal probably lacks such a gear)...better ratios > pumping a little oil around.
Look at BSFC maps - sure, there will be one central sweet-spot, but efficiency doesn't drop like a rock as you move off that spot. Pumping losses will degrade the slushbox mileage more so. That's why the industry would love to be able to move to dry-clutch DCT's.

Back when there were more Amish cars being sold, vehicle manufacturers fought hard to get the EPA to upshift Amish transmissions according to shift indicator lights while conducting their emissions / fuel economy testing. These daze, there are so few Amish around that it isn't worth fighting for again.
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

Post by theholycow »

So do you think the EPA isn't using high gear on their highway test?
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

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theholycow wrote:So do you think the EPA isn't using high gear on their highway test?
I don't believe they "short-shift" like you or I would if we were trying to improve our fuel mileage. Back in the 1980's, manufacturers petitioned the EPA to follow Shift Indicator Lights (SIL's) on their test cycles and there was a gain in fuel mileage. I will also say that much of the buying public did not follow the recommended shift points, either out of ignorance (who reads the owner's manuals any more), because they did not like the feel or sound of the vehicle when shifted at low engine speeds, or because they, or someone they trusted, knew better than to shift when that light came on. Look at how many people disabled the solenoid that forced 1>4 low-throttle upshifts on vehicles so equipped. That was another way to improve Amish fuel mileage on EPA tests, and it did what it was supposed to do, but folks don't like being told how to drive. Based on dismal operator acceptance rates for the SIL's, I doubt the EPA would be open to considering their incorporation into the test cycles again.
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

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From 1986 Volvo 240 Manual (the book, not the Spanish guy):

"Shift indicator light
(manual transmission models only)
The Volvo shift indicator light (S.I.L.) is a device designed to help you get even better gas mileage from your Volvo car. Studies have shown that the best fuel economy is obtained by shifting gears at low engine rpm and high relative engine load. The Volvo S.I.L. is calibrated to show you when to shift for improved mileage without sacrificing smooth acceleration.

Use of the S.I.L. is simple. Shift to next higher gear as soon as the light comes on. You may find after using the S.I.L. for some time that your natural shifting rhythm will adapt to the S.I.L.'s suggestion. Some drivers may even shift before the light comes on.
Obviously, there will be times when you need to shift later than the light would indicate (for example, when climbing hills or trailer towing). Using the light regularly, however, should result in a mileage improvement of six percent or more, depending on how you normally drive."
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

Post by theholycow »

I agree about the SIL and drivers' behavior.

You suggested that the 3-pedal EPA results were inaccurately low compared to the slushbox's result. I don't see how shift patterns would affect that unless you think the EPA tester is not using high gear.

Edit: Tangentially speaking, my understanding is that the skip-shift system is designed specifically to cheat on the EPA tests and does not produce better real-world fuel economy than shifting through the gears...so I wouldn't worry too much about people bypassing the lockout solenoid.
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

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It's that the EPA drivers spend more time in lower gears than a prudent person would if they were trying to get good fuel economy. They don't spend as much time in the highest gear as the slushbox does - slushboxes are calibrated to ace the EPA tests. Yes, skip shifting can save fuel, eggspecialty when you have a vehicle with higher power-to-weight ratio and relatively close gear ratios and you are NOT accelerating anywhere near the capabilities of the vehicle. The EPA tests are a particular duty cycle. If you drive like that, or like certain portions of those tests, then what would improve fuel mileage there would improve fuel mileage for you.
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

Post by theholycow »

I don't disagree about the EPA drivers, but I'm still wondering how that affects the highway rating. Sure, it will definitely affect city rating.

http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

...well, the "highway" cycle varies between 30 and 60, and the "high speed" cycle varies between 0 and 80, both averaging about 48...so I guess shift patterns could affect the highway rating.
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

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theholycow wrote:I don't disagree about the EPA drivers, but I'm still wondering how that affects the highway rating. Sure, it will definitely affect city rating.

http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

...well, the "highway" cycle varies between 30 and 60, and the "high speed" cycle varies between 0 and 80, both averaging about 48...so I guess shift patterns could affect the highway rating.
It is by no means a steady-state cruise, which is what my highway driving tends to be.

Hey, how about them snowflakes....I was teaching a science class in the middle school Monday and I think we had most every form of precipitation listed in the science book right outside the classroom window that day.

Then we talked about energy sources, fossil fuels, and greenhouse gases and why it makes sense for my sister to heat her home with Electricity in Oregon (Bonneville Hydroelectric Dam) when natural gas is the least expensive energy source here in Michigan (Coal fired and Nuclear electrical generation).
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Re: Mazda to Build Transparent Vehicles

Post by theholycow »

Rope-Pusher wrote:Hey, how about them snowflakes....I was teaching a science class in the middle school Monday and I think we had most every form of precipitation listed in the science book right outside the classroom window that day.
There is a mixture of rain and snow here right now. :shock: DO NOT WANT
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