Steer clear of those Toyotas

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scionkid
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Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by scionkid »

DOT's verdict on runaway Toyotas
A field examination of 58 vehicles said to be involved in unintended-acceleration crashes revealed no evidence of  brake failure or throttle malfunction. Moreover, these Toyotas were equipped with simple event data recorders (EDRs, or “black boxes”), as about 85 percent of new cars are. Of the 39 vehicles that fit the unintended-acceleration pattern and had usable EDR data, none showed sustained, pre-crash braking taking place and 35 revealed high or increasing accelerator position

...

To test for electromagnetic interference, NASA subjected the six test cars to very high-powered radiation at a variety of frequencies. The agency also directly  imposed these electrical signals into the cars’ wiring harnesses. In the process, the NASA scientists stalled engines, induced limp-home mode, and even entirely fried one engine-management computer. But they  were unable to cause a single instance of sudden acceleration.

Based on the DOT report, it seems clear that the Toyota sudden-acceleration scare has little more substance than the one that came before it [Audi 5000 from the 80's]. Ultimately, driver error was the culprit.
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Shadow
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by Shadow »

What? As far as I'm concerned, Toyota has been cleared, just like Audi was back in the 80's.

The last sentence says it all: "Ultimately, driver error was the culprit."
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by FDSpirit »

I reread the article. I saw this a while back. We all know if someone wasn't looking for a fat paycheck, most of those claims wouldn't even be around.
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

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Somebody goes, "My car is accelerating by itself!" Camera pans down to their feet. Left foot is pressing the gas pedal. "What?! I wasn't doing that! I know how to drive!"
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Shadow
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by Shadow »

paul34 wrote:
FDSpirit wrote:I reread the article. I saw this a while back. We all know if someone wasn't looking for a fat paycheck, most of those claims wouldn't even be around.
Indeed. Notice that after this story broke, all the SUA claims suddenly disappeared overnight.

I remember reading an article somewhere (unfortunately, I don't remember where) that claimed Ford actually had more unintended acceleration complaints than Toyota in a 3-month timeframe that coincided with Toyota's worse three months after the media firestorm occurred.

Somehow the media ignored Ford though and focused on Toyota.

Anyway, the point is that every major manufacturer will always have some unintended acceleration claims. I'm still waiting to read about one of these claims that was substantiated...
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by Squint »

I'm sticking with the left foot/accelerator pedal theory until someone actually finds a mechanical unintended acceleration :wink:
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by FDSpirit »

There was also a 911 call that had been recorded from some jerk in a Prius. His model year wasn't even part of the recall.
Shadow wrote:
paul34 wrote:
FDSpirit wrote:I reread the article. I saw this a while back. We all know if someone wasn't looking for a fat paycheck, most of those claims wouldn't even be around.
Indeed. Notice that after this story broke, all the SUA claims suddenly disappeared overnight.

I remember reading an article somewhere (unfortunately, I don't remember where) that claimed Ford actually had more unintended acceleration complaints than Toyota in a 3-month timeframe that coincided with Toyota's worse three months after the media firestorm occurred.

Somehow the media ignored Ford though and focused on Toyota.

Anyway, the point is that every major manufacturer will always have some unintended acceleration claims. I'm still waiting to read about one of these claims that was substantiated...
It's what happens when you become too big for your own good. That and the media blows everything out of proportion and I'm sure this whole incident looked pretty good for other automakers, especially the domestics. Who knows if they had anything to do with it. But I agree. Until we can get some actual proof about these claims, I'm not believing it.
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by theholycow »

FDSpirit wrote:There was also a 911 call that had been recorded from some jerk in a Prius. His model year wasn't even part of the recall.
They told him to put it in neutral and he refused, claiming that it would cause the car to flip over. Image
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by Shadow »

paul34 wrote:In addition, Prii actually have a brake override.
Yeah, well as a result of this whole mess, every new Toyota now has brake override. I'm sure every new car (from other manufacturers) that doesn't have it soon will. And if you think about it, that's a good thing. Unless someone is trying to do some crazy brakestand burnout, there's really no good reason that I can think of to apply the brakes and the accelerator at the same time. Back in the old days before limited slip differentials and traction control, you could use the brake & gas to help transfer power to a wheel with no traction. On today's cars, that's really not needed.
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by theholycow »

Brake & gas at the same time is still good for DCHT (though the override, as I understand, allows a couple seconds of it for that purpose), and limited slip differentials are still an expensive option (and traction control sucks for the situations where you'd use the brake and gas as a poor man's limited slip). At least with RWD you can probably still use the parking brake for that job.
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by Shadow »

I'm actually very satisfied with the traction control system in my 4Runner. Granted, it's a 4wd, but the 4Runner uses open front and rear differentials and relies on an aggressive traction control system (called ATRAC) to transfer torque from one side of the axle to the other. The front and rear axles have a lockable center differential. With the center diff locked (50% power distribution front and rear) and the ATRAC working to transfer power side to side, the 4Runner is virtually unstoppable in snow. It's really a very effective and simple system, yet it provides an incredible amount of traction for a vehicle that doesn't have lockers on the front or rear axles.
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by DKaz »

I don't think the article is discouraging people from buying Toyotas, just making people cautious of the idiot behind the wheel when they're driving next to one.
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by scionkid »

DKaz wrote:I don't think the article is discouraging people from buying Toyotas, just making people cautious of the idiot behind the wheel when they're driving next to one.
Exactly. However, I do not agree with Toyota kowtowing to incompetent drivers by installing brake throttle override in all their products. Those who can't handle emergency such as a runaway engine have no business driving on public roads.
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Re: Steer clear of those Toyotas

Post by Shadow »

scionkid wrote:
Exactly. However, I do not agree with Toyota kowtowing to incompetent drivers by installing brake throttle override in all their products. Those who can't handle emergency such as a runaway engine have no business driving on public roads.
Even if this whole mess never happened to Toyota, it was only a matter of time before Toyota went that direction. This just sped up the process. Other manufacturers were already ahead of the curve when it came to implementing the override.

I guess we (manual trans drivers) don't have to worry too much about that though...
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