Civic pride?

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Civic pride?

Postby Rope-Pusher » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:10 pm

2012 Honda Civic Si Navi Coupe, an Autoweek Drivers Log Car Review
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DIGITAL EDITOR ANDREW STOY: So that's what happened to all the character that got sucked out of the regular Civic that we had a few weeks back: They took it and stuck it into this 2012 Honda Civic Si. Light, precise shifter; responsive handling; surprising grip at irresponsible speeds; firm, easy-to-modulate braking with almost no dive and a zingy engine that'll bounce off the rev limiter all day long. This is what a Honda is supposed to feel like. It reminds me of my '88 Prelude Si, a high compliment in my book.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011082 ... z1WTDizen3
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby AHTOXA » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:59 pm

I don't know why, but I've been entirely turned off from FWD cas, even knowing how excellent they are, as in the case of the civic si.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Rope-Pusher » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:08 pm

^ Phunny you should chose today to say that:

"Infiniti's last front-wheel-drive vehicle was the 2000 model year I35, a reworked Nissan Maxima, which was discontinued in 2004. Now, a bevy of new front-wheel products are coming. On Aug. 20, during the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, Infiniti executives unveiled the Infiniti JX, a roomy three-row luxury crossover that will reach dealerships in April. It comes in front- and all-wheel-drive versions.

Another new fwd vehicle, likely to be revealed this year, will be a small luxury hatchback based on the recently unveiled Infiniti Etherea concept. It will pit Infiniti against the BMW 1-series. Additionally, Infiniti is working on a front-drive luxury electric car that shares a platform with the Nissan Leaf.

"Customers really don't care that much about the platform beneath their car," says Larry Dominique, vice president of product planning for the Americas at Nissan North America Inc. "They care about the car.

"There are limitations with rear-wheel drive that we'd like to work around--like packaging. We can create more interior space if we get away from the technical requirements of rear-wheel. We don't have to have the big rear axle and the big transmission."

He notes that fwd platforms also will help fuel economy."

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011082 ... z1WTSYoAWD
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Shadow » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:47 pm

The new Civic---just another Honda that revs nicely, but makes no low-end torque. I just don't find any driving enjoyment from any engine that doesn't give me a nice push in the back at low RPM.

It seems that many reviewers/journalists agree.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Shadow » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:50 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:
"Customers really don't care that much about the platform beneath their car," says Larry Dominique, vice president of product planning for the Americas at Nissan North America Inc. "They care about the car.



^^^^ Is that guy serious? I think most customers do care if the vehicle they drive is FWD, RWD, or AWD. And enthusiasts absolutely care...
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby AHTOXA » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:01 pm

I think this is a well-known fact at this point. In my view, I agree that the majority of the car buyers don't make the drivetrain layout one of the criteria when car shopping and many of those that do, will lean towards FWD due to the preconceived notion that FWD is better for snow - I won't get into this particular subject but do realize that both have their advantages and disadvantages.

For manufacturers it makes sense - cheaper to manufacture a FWD, better packaging and better cabin space due to lack of driveshafts and such that take need to be taken into account.

For me - I prefer the driving dynamics of a RWD vehicle. I'm no racer and surely not even a professional driver, but I like the way the car's pivot point is further towards the front of the vehicle (RWD) vs FWD during cornering. I like the dynamics of it in the snow, even. To me an oversteer is a more desidred trait rather than understeer and not purely from a "fun" standpoint. It's more difficult to control to an average driver, but once used to, it actually provides more control in a slippery situation.

I like the general robustness of a RWD vehicle as compared to FWD. Perhaps this is based on RWD dominating primarily trucks and high-powered vehicles, but I think that statement holds some water.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby AHTOXA » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:03 pm

Shadow wrote:
Rope-Pusher wrote:
"Customers really don't care that much about the platform beneath their car," says Larry Dominique, vice president of product planning for the Americas at Nissan North America Inc. "They care about the car.



^^^^ Is that guy serious? I think most customers do care if the vehicle they drive is FWD, RWD, or AWD. And enthusiasts absolutely care...


Enthusiasts are FAR, FAR from "most customers". Less than 10%, I'd bet.

Yes, he's serious. Most likely he's basing this on hard sales date and statistics. You're basing your opinion on your perspective of the subject.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby AHTOXA » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:07 pm

I'm sure most have seen this, but I'll leave this here for relevance and entertainment purposes.

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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Shadow » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:58 am

AHTOXA wrote:I think this is a well-known fact at this point. In my view, I agree that the majority of the car buyers don't make the drivetrain layout one of the criteria when car shopping and many of those that do, will lean towards FWD due to the preconceived notion that FWD is better for snow - I won't get into this particular subject but do realize that both have their advantages and disadvantages.
.


You're in Texas. Trust me when I say that most people who live in the north (or any area that regularly experiences snow) do care about drivetrain layout as a major consideration when buying/choosing a car. I'd estimate that at least 90% of people in my area not only know if their car is FWD, RWD, or AWD and of that 90%, a big majority would say that they specifically factored that into their car buying decision.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Shadow » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:01 am

AHTOXA wrote:
Enthusiasts are FAR, FAR from "most customers". Less than 10%, I'd bet.



That's true. And that's exactly why I separated "most customers" from "enthusiasts" in my post.


Yes, he's serious. Most likely he's basing this on hard sales date and statistics. You're basing your opinion on your perspective of the subject.


I have no idea if he's basing it on any data whatsoever. It could have been strictly his opinion, as there is no data to back it up. And yes, I am basing my opinion on my perspective, just as you're doing with your opinion (like I said, you're in Texas and snow driving isn't exactly an issue).
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby scionkid » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:57 am

Stupid marketing people can't put together words that make sense. How can someone care about the car without knowing what it's riding on? I'm not an expert in everthing, but I try to learn as much as I can about what I'm buying, especially something as expensive as an Infiniti.

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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Squint » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:00 pm

Maybe that guy is why no one buys an Infiniti.

Yes, it's a year old, but here is a nice graph showing May 2010 sales of vehicles by brand. Infiniti is not near the top...
Proof.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Shadow » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:22 pm

scionkid wrote:Stupid marketing people can't put together words that make sense. How can someone care about the car without knowing what it's riding on? I'm not an expert in everthing, but I try to learn as much as I can about what I'm buying, especially something as expensive as an Infiniti.


I honestly think that was just his opinion and not anything based in any kind of fact/data. Actually, he may not even believe it himself....but he just said it to justify the direction of the company.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby Shadow » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:26 pm

Squint wrote:Maybe that guy is why no one buys an Infiniti.

Yes, it's a year old, but here is a nice graph showing May 2010 sales of vehicles by brand. Infiniti is not near the top...
Proof.


True, but keep in mind that Infiniti is a division of Nissan. They seems somewhat competitive with Acura (a division of Honda) and a bit less competitive with Lexus (a division of Toyota).

I actually considered buying a RWD G37 coupe, but went with an AWD A5 instead.
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Re: Civic pride?

Postby AHTOXA » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:40 pm

Shadow, I'm from Chicago and I still live there. I'm in Texas for a few months on business.

Quite a few folk in Chicago aren't sure whether front or rear powers their car. I hang around in a circle of auto techs and related stories are abundant and amusing.
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