Earth Calling Honda

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Earth Calling Honda

Postby Rope-Pusher » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:29 pm

From Autoline Daily:
"HONDA “EARTH DREAMS”
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Honda just announced it plans to deliver best-in-class fuel economy in EVERY vehicle segment within three years. It’s also set a goal of cutting CO2 emissions 20 percent by 2020. How does it plan to hit these lofty targets? Well, brace yourself for another stupid name! Enter the “Earth Dreams” suite of technologies. Like Mazda and its SKYACTIV strategy, Honda is optimizing and enhancing to stretch every drop of fuel. Some of the upgrades include: next-generation gasoline engines that are lighter, feature direct fuel injection and have the latest version of Honda’s famous VTEC system. It will also offer a new diesel engine plus a range of continuously variable transmissions. A new two-motor hybrid system has been developed and it will push toward greater vehicle electrification. Nothing revolutionary in this secret sauce. You know, 10 years ago if Honda set the goal of being No.1 in fuel economy we all would have said “no problem.” But today it’s a different story. It’s going to be hard for them to beat even Hyundai and Kia."
http://world.honda.com/news/2011/411113 ... index.html
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby tankinbeans » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:18 pm

1 word:

Stop-start.

That right there would go a long way, I think. I can't recall if I read that in the little list of ideas since I more or less skimmed while watching Top Gear UK. A good bit of gas is wasted idling and this is part of the reason the Prius does so well.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:46 pm

From improvements associated with CVT :

"Use of an electronic oil pump to realize an idle stop system with high response contributes significantly to improved usability and fuel efficiency."

For my duty cycle, stop/start wouldn't save me much in fuel usage if anything. I drive a mile or less to get on I-75, drive 14 miles at freeway speeds and then drive a mile of less on the other side of the commute. I rarely idle for more than the time for one traffic light to change on either side of the freeway runs. The stop/start wouldn't attempt to shut off the motor during the first mile of the commute either way, since the motor wouldn't have reached operating temperature yet.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby bk7794 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:07 pm

I think this should be good. I wonder what the numbers would be for that 1.5, and the 2.0 series. Should be interesting to see.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby potownrob » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:18 pm

bk7794 wrote:I think this should be good. I wonder what the numbers would be for that 1.5, and the 2.0 series. Should be interesting to see.
this looks promising, but i am a little sceptical based on my experience with newer (~03+) hondas versus older ones (90s etc.). It probably has more to do with the weight of the car (and possibly now having an automatic transmission) than anything, but despite the newer technologies in the K24 engines in our newer Accords, the gas mileage is significantly lower than any of our past Hondas. My sister with her 2011 Accord might be doing better than my mom and me (07 and 03 Accords for us, respectively); i'll have to check with her.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby theholycow » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:31 am

The weight is part of it. The slushbox too.

Another part is the power; IIRC they're not only coming with more horsepower, but their torque is coming in at lower RPM and they've sacrificed one of their fuel economy strategies in favor of delivering what people want to drive.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby Shadow » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:54 am

tankinbeans wrote:1 word:

Stop-start.

That right there would go a long way, I think. I can't recall if I read that in the little list of ideas since I more or less skimmed while watching Top Gear UK. A good bit of gas is wasted idling and this is part of the reason the Prius does so well.



I've never been too excited about stop/start technology. From what I've read, start/stop will increase fuel economy about 4% (the average is supposedly 3-5%) for the city drive cycle. And of course it will be much less for the highway drive cycle since idling is much less likely on the highway. So that means I can expect to go from 21 mpg to 21.8 mpg in the city on my Audi.

I guess if you look at the big picture and consider how much fuel can be saved overall if every engine used start/stop technology, it could be significant. But for individual drivers it doesn't seem to be so significant.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby tankinbeans » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:55 pm

Shadow wrote:
tankinbeans wrote:1 word:

Stop-start.

That right there would go a long way, I think. I can't recall if I read that in the little list of ideas since I more or less skimmed while watching Top Gear UK. A good bit of gas is wasted idling and this is part of the reason the Prius does so well.



I've never been too excited about stop/start technology. From what I've read, start/stop will increase fuel economy about 4% (the average is supposedly 3-5%) for the city drive cycle. And of course it will be much less for the highway drive cycle since idling is much less likely on the highway. So that means I can expect to go from 21 mpg to 21.8 mpg in the city on my Audi.

I guess if you look at the big picture and consider how much fuel can be saved overall if every engine used start/stop technology, it could be significant. But for individual drivers it doesn't seem to be so significant.


I guess it just seems to make sense. Any little bit helps. Consider how many people sit and idle through drive-thrus to get their "food" and bank tellers and any number of convenience locations. I attempt to do anything not to idle, but many people don't. If people thought about how they might be driving and how their habits might be affecting mileage things might change, but they don't.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby Shadow » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:50 pm

tankinbeans wrote:
I guess it just seems to make sense. Any little bit helps. Consider how many people sit and idle through drive-thrus to get their "food" and bank tellers and any number of convenience locations. I attempt to do anything not to idle, but many people don't. If people thought about how they might be driving and how their habits might be affecting mileage things might change, but they don't.


Yes, it is true that any little bit helps. I mean, you're getting zero mpg when you're sitting still with the engine idling, so I guess it can make sense to shut the engine down whenever possible.

I actually keep my engine idling often, especially in the winter. For example, if I'm making a quick errand in cold weather, I'd rather keep my engine idling than shut it off and restart it. I do this often if the engine isn't at the full operating temperature. Shutting down an engine that's still not fully warmed up isn't a good practice, so that's why I'll let mine idle whenever I can during those short errands.

A while back we had an interesting discussion on the 4Runner forum about being stranded out in the middle of nowhere, stuck in deep snow and freezing weather. We calculated that we would be able to idle the engine continuously for approximately 52 hours with a full tank of gas. I believe that was the number, but I'd have to look up the thread to be sure. Still though, having more than two full days to run the engine on a 23-gallon fuel tank means the engine isn't really using much fuel to idle.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby potownrob » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:18 pm

Shadow wrote:...A while back we had an interesting discussion on the 4Runner forum about being stranded out in the middle of nowhere, stuck in deep snow and freezing weather. We calculated that we would be able to idle the engine continuously for approximately 52 hours with a full tank of gas. I believe that was the number, but I'd have to look up the thread to be sure. Still though, having more than two full days to run the engine on a 23-gallon fuel tank means the engine isn't really using much fuel to idle.
I wonder how one of those cigarette lighter (or a hard-wired) heaters would work in that situation. Of course, then you'd have to worry about running down the battery etc...
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby Shadow » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:28 pm

potownrob wrote:I wonder how one of those cigarette lighter (or a hard-wired) heaters would work in that situation. Of course, then you'd have to worry about running down the battery etc...


It wouldn't work. You'd never be able to get any substantial heat out of such a small circuit. And like you said, the battery would die down quickly if you found a way to power a heater. If I were in that situation, I'd run the engine only when I needed the heat. With a full tank of gas, that would buy me a long time and I'd probably have to worry more about food & water rather than heat.
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby bk7794 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:31 pm

potownrob wrote:
bk7794 wrote:I think this should be good. I wonder what the numbers would be for that 1.5, and the 2.0 series. Should be interesting to see.
this looks promising, but i am a little sceptical based on my experience with newer (~03+) hondas versus older ones (90s etc.). It probably has more to do with the weight of the car (and possibly now having an automatic transmission) than anything, but despite the newer technologies in the K24 engines in our newer Accords, the gas mileage is significantly lower than any of our past Hondas. My sister with her 2011 Accord might be doing better than my mom and me (07 and 03 Accords for us, respectively); i'll have to check with her.

On an Si it should be good, I mean a 2700lb vehicle I think it is. I also personally like the looks of it...If they can downsize it to a 2.0 again, or keep the 2.4 and get atleast 230hp with the same amount of torque then they should be golden.

Also with a 1.5 in lets say the fit, the manual shouldn't be that bad. Aslong as they keep the weight down. Once hauling passengers you really don't want to be going to fast anyways...atleast in my opinion. Also I see the problem with the K24 in the accord, however I remember the sticker saying almost 31mpg. But anyways the accord is a heavy car like you say, that is probably where it is all going, and the auto aswell. I wonder what the v6 would have been like for you.

One thing I like about the Kseries is no timing belt, so one less thing to do maintenance on.

All they need to do is bring that vintage honda feel back. Hopefully the BRZ/86/Frs will give them a kick in the backside to wake them up.

I know this is an old thread but I like honda's...
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby potownrob » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:42 pm

maybe the civic racers turboing their little 1.6 litres back in the day were onto something and they didn't even realize it...
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby Shadow » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:25 pm

potownrob wrote:maybe the civic racers turboing their little 1.6 litres back in the day were onto something and they didn't even realize it...


Yeah, it's amazing how some of those guys got such great performance out of those little engines. A small engine + a turbo + a lightweight car = lotsa fun!
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Re: Earth Calling Honda

Postby theholycow » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:31 pm

Bump. Are they a year closer to their goal?
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