No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

All the news that's fit to shift.
User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3321
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby Shadow » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:52 am

Could that ever actually happen? We will someday see a manual transmission that has no physical linkage between the shifter and the transmission? I think we might have touched upon this subject at some point in the past, but now I came across this information from a Car and Driver blog site:

The Missing Linkage

Company: BMW

Official USPTO Name: Vehicle having a transmission and a selection element for shifting gears

What It’ll Do: Replace the physical connection between a manual shifter and a transmission with actuators that mimic the feeling of a physical connection. It sounds crazy, but BMW says it could be used on manuals with as many as eight gears to keep the shift pattern compact. The computer also could lock out certain gates, preventing a driver who’s lost in such a large pattern from grabbing the wrong gear. The system could readily be applied to automatics, too.

Reality Check: Bet on it. With Nissan and Porsche offering automated rev-matched downshifts—and the latter with a seven-speed manual—our favorite transmission type is in a rare era of innovation. Besides, BMW has shown an unending desire to toy with everything on the center console.

Status: Filed in 2012; patent pending.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-da-vin ... ture-tech/
Image

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3679
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 300S, 03 Century
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby tankinbeans » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:24 am

So...we'll have drive by wire, steer by wire, now shift by wire. I don't see what could possibly go wrong there.
17 Mazda6
03 Century
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!

IMBoring25
Moderator
Posts: 3252
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: OK, USA

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby IMBoring25 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:30 am

Should be shot down for obviousness and prior art but probably won't be because nothing is...

From the department of redundancy department, when Toyota was having their issues with unintended acceleration, I was reminded of how reassuring it is that manuals have at least two ways to remove power from the drive wheels that are completely independent from any other systems or computers. Scratch one off the list, I guess.

User avatar
ClutchDisc
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:50 pm
Cars: 2001 Chevy S-10 2.2L 5MT
Location: Detroit area

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby ClutchDisc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:33 pm

No thank you! If that happens, I'll be buying older restored vehicles for sure.
01 Chevy S-10 2.2L 5-speed manual
dakta1420 wrote:The slush box is a great example of the american culture, lazy and not involved. I personally despise that.

User avatar
InlinePaul
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1410
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2001 Ranger 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby InlinePaul » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:26 pm

The manual gearbox was essentially perfected when syncronizers were added. Anything beyond that is the result of either engineers with too much time on their hands or, more likely than not, engineers being pushed by marketing folks to "improve" an already proved design because marketing folks always have to have something "new" to satisfy the fickle masses.

How about the digital shift knobs that are in the aftermarket? It displays the gear you are in on the top of the knob--like you should be looking at the shift knob while wheeling down the road at 40 or 50 mph!
Last edited by InlinePaul on Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...

User avatar
watkins
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15667
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:42 am
Cars: 1999 Saab Viggen
Location: Salem, MA

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby watkins » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:28 pm

Chrysler is using automatics with no physical connection already. The auto in the Dart is an actual automated manual. The technology pretty much already exists.
Image

User avatar
six
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4672
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:45 pm
Cars: 2015 Chevrolet SS 6MT
Location: California, U.S.

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby six » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:31 pm

tankinbeans wrote:So...we'll have drive by wire, steer by wire, now shift by wire. I don't see what could possibly go wrong there.

Don't forget, for a time, Mercedes Benz had brake-by-wire as well.

I just have one reminder: SkyNet. It's inevitable. A remote signal can now even shift my manual car?!?!? Doomsday is upon us.
Image
2015 Heron White Chevrolet SS Sedan 6MT

User avatar
InlinePaul
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1410
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2001 Ranger 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby InlinePaul » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:34 pm

tankinbeans wrote:So...we'll have drive by wire, steer by wire, now shift by wire. I don't see what could possibly go wrong there.
What till they drive though a HERF gun's range! It's one thing to have the car die, but another if it dies and cannot steer! Of course I have never run across an active HERF gun before, or maybe that was why my old 1984 F150 was dying so much, then would start fine after being towed to the shop. :lol:
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...

User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3321
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby Shadow » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:49 pm

InlinePaul wrote:

How about the digital shift knobs that are in the aftermarket? It displays the gear you are in on the top of the knob--like you should be looking at the shift knob while wheeling down the road at 40 or 50 mph!


My car has a display in the instrument cluster that shows the driver which gear is engaged. It can be turn on & off though...
Image

User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3321
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby Shadow » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:57 pm

watkins wrote:Chrysler is using automatics with no physical connection already. The auto in the Dart is an actual automated manual. The technology pretty much already exists.


Not just Chrysler....lots of newer cars don't have any physical connection between the gear selector and their automatic transmissions. MB has been doing that for years. But for obvious reasons, a manual transmission without a physical connection is a different animal. Of course it can be done, but it will most defintely add significant complexity and cost to what is otherwise a simple transmission.
Image

User avatar
watkins
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15667
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:42 am
Cars: 1999 Saab Viggen
Location: Salem, MA

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby watkins » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:03 pm

Take the dual dry clutch auto (the automated manual) in the Dart. Add a shift gate with sensors. Add a clutch pedal instead of a hydraulic pump. Done.

Hell, Saab dabbled in alternative manuals back in the early '90s. The Sensonic transmission was a manual with an electronically controled clutch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_900#Sensonic
Image

User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3321
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby Shadow » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:31 pm

watkins wrote:Take the dual dry clutch auto (the automated manual) in the Dart. Add a shift gate with sensors. Add a clutch pedal instead of a hydraulic pump. Done.

Hell, Saab dabbled in alternative manuals back in the early '90s. The Sensonic transmission was a manual with an electronically controled clutch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_900#Sensonic


Apples and oranges. You're talking about modifying an automated manual, which is already basically a manual transmission that can shift on its own. And IMO, that really makes it an automatic, regardless whether it is based on a manual transmission design or not. If it can shift by itself, it simply ain't a true manual transmission.

BTW, look at the smart car---it has been using an automated manual (Borg Warner, if I'm not mistaken) for many years now. Yes, it has an automated clutch instead of a clutch pedal.
Image

User avatar
watkins
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15667
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:42 am
Cars: 1999 Saab Viggen
Location: Salem, MA

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby watkins » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:41 pm

Its not apples and oranges at all. Take an automated manual. Add an electronic shifter. Thats only a step away from automating a manual, then adding an electronic shifter. The end result is a "manual" transmission complete with toothed gears and a shift gate.

EDIT:
I just realized you may have meant between the Sensonic transmission and the concept of non-linked shifters and transmissions. That was just a tangent as commentary that engineers have been playing with manuals in odd ways.
Last edited by watkins on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
InlinePaul
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1410
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2001 Ranger 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby InlinePaul » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:12 pm

Shadow wrote:....lots of newer cars don't have any physical connection between the gear selector and their automatic transmissions.
So then there is no advantage in having the selector lever on the floor taking up space. They should put it back on the steering column where it is out of the way, or better yet, go like my 1963 Dodge Dart had with the push buttons selectors on the dash board. But many think their car is cooler and/or faster with a big fancy knob on the floor? It sells.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3679
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 300S, 03 Century
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: No physical linkage between shifter and transmission???

Postby tankinbeans » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:34 pm

InlinePaul wrote:
Shadow wrote:....lots of newer cars don't have any physical connection between the gear selector and their automatic transmissions.
So then there is no advantage in having the selector lever on the floor taking up space. They should put it back on the steering column where it is out of the way, or better yet, go like my 1963 Dodge Dart had with the push buttons selectors on the dash board. But many think their car is cooler and/or faster with a big fancy knob on the floor? It sells.

My dad used to drool about cars with the push button trannies. Could always put them on the steering wheel, I already have 18-21 buttons on my wheel, depending on how you count them.

Only half joking.
17 Mazda6
03 Century
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!


Return to “Manuals in the News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 1 guest