Honda CR-Z 6MT

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Shadow
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby Shadow » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:09 pm

AHTOXA wrote:I should mention that my other reason was the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) failures. Nuisanse in-warranty and an atrocious cost out of warranty. VW/Audi aren't the only one struggling with it though. There are reports of other makes, namely German, having very similar issues with their disels.


BMW has had HUGE problems with their HPFP for several years now. I've heard no issues at all with any Audi vehicles though. I don't really follow VW very much, but I haven't heard of any issues there either.

BTW, I'm talking gasoline engines with DGI. I realize that you're talking about diesel engines, but I still haven't heard of many issues with diesel engines and the HPFP.
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby potownrob » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:07 pm

forgot all about the hpfp issues; my understanding is the newer post 2010 units have been improved. here's some dubber insight though: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... light=hpfp
BUT DEM FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby AHTOXA » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 pm

Shadow wrote:
AHTOXA wrote:I should mention that my other reason was the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) failures. Nuisanse in-warranty and an atrocious cost out of warranty. VW/Audi aren't the only one struggling with it though. There are reports of other makes, namely German, having very similar issues with their disels.


BMW has had HUGE problems with their HPFP for several years now. I've heard no issues at all with any Audi vehicles though. I don't really follow VW very much, but I haven't heard of any issues there either.

BTW, I'm talking gasoline engines with DGI. I realize that you're talking about diesel engines, but I still haven't heard of many issues with diesel engines and the HPFP.


There are definitely issues for Audi/VW. I remember a 100+ page thread on it on some VW/Audi board when I was researching.
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby Shadow » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:40 pm

AHTOXA wrote:
There are definitely issues for Audi/VW. I remember a 100+ page thread on it on some VW/Audi board when I was researching.


Diesel engines? Or Gas?

The only reason I ask is because my car is obviously GDI with a HPFP and I've never heard of any such issues with any of Audi's gasoline engines. BMW, on the other hand....well, not so much.
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby AHTOXA » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:50 pm

For diesel engines specifically.

Here's a huge thread listing members with failures at TDIclub forum:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=293629

Failure list as taken from the forum and you can see it's rather significant!


Alabama 4
gprim AL 2010
patdavid AL 2011
speedeep AL 2011
Redwave92 AL 2009

Arizona 6
2009TDINEWBIE AZ 2009 first failure
2009TDINEWBIE AZ 2009 second failure
WL-ShroderGTI AZ 2009
Plus3Golfer AZ 2009
AZ-TDI AZ 2009
LazerBlueBeast AZ 2009

Arkansas 2
zoeygirl AR 2011
jchall101 AR 2009


California 59
NipomoTDI CA 2010
chadjaeger CA 2009
rjgaliano CA 2009
gborgan CA 2009
hocking CA 2009
astaal CA 2009
lovehatevw CA 2009
phathead CA 2009
proulx70 CA 2009
durundal CA 2009
funkychicken81 CA 2010
smokeskleen CA 2010
pjcan CA 2010
Phancey CA 2009
dr.freud CA 2009
SFOPilot CA 2011
JohnAlt CA 2009
chummer CA 2010
danix CA 2010
SandDiesel CA 2009
gotconsultants CA 2009
elbrowno CA 2010
Mark Jeffreys CA 2011
Screenial CA 2009
idea man CA 2010
marleyi CA 2010
joseph2012 CA 2010
fireinsyrup CA 2011
AJALE CA 2010
rinsco CA 2009
Seeuarndjimmy CA 2009
bort CA 2011
zaus60 CA 2009
Zaius CA 2009
potiron CA 2009
ne31097 CA 2011
Klystron. CA. 2011
gruder18 CA 2010
istone CA 2010
cstajduhar CA 2011
todd4218 CA 2011
rinsco CA 2009
specialagentdale CA 2010 first failure
specialagentdale CA 2010 second failure
tdi10sb CA 2010
plus1 CA 2010 Q7
plus1 CA 2010 A3
MM48 CA 2011
rmchung CA 2010
tdidanny CA 2010
Fredkap CA 2010 Q7
rosaluma CA 2012 P
tobo CA 2009
macattack963 CA 2012
ocindymom CA 2009
basspfeifer CA 2011
CraziFuzzy CA 2009
yaknuts CA 2012
510Finn CA 2010

Colorado 5
ohcaptainron CO 2010
TurboKid CO 2011 first failure
TurboKid CO 2011 second failure
Thorny CO 2011
storx CO 2009

Connecticut 4
andicame CT 2010
baggsgt CT 2012
AMT1281 CT 2009
mfisel CT 2011


Florida 20
Chadmag FL 2009
tallymom FL 2009
Knowledge FL 2009
ferland25 FL 2010
jessesrq FL 2009 first failure
jessesrq FL 2009 second failure
WFLTDI FL 2009
Whodathunkit50 FL 2010
1972SS454 FL 2009
upsbroke FL 2009
batgo FL 2009
rich! FL 2011
bcarr001 FL 2010
ajkreider FL 2011
2010TDIWagen FL 2010
ErickL FL 2009
TR10 FL 2012
Data saurus FL 2011
RdPrry FL 2009 first failure
RdPrry FL 2009 second failure
Georgia 3
house-1221 GA 2009 first failure
house-1221 GA 2009 second failure
xracer111 GA 2009

Illinois 6
jedwyl IL 2010
Kennytdi IL
vonnie77 IL 2009
marc.d.taylor. il 2009
4 TUGGIN IL 2009
rpulfer IL 2009

Indiana 1
straightliner IN 2009

Kansas 1
upsbroke KS 2009

Kentucky 1
Paramedick KY 2009

Louisiana 2
Sunglassesjohnny LA 2010
GerardS LA 2009

Maine 1
subsonic44 ME 2009

Massachusetts 7
LoneWolf MA 2009
rte2MA MA 2010 first failure
rte2MA MA 2010second failure
pcnorton MA 2011 first failure
pcnorton MA 2011 second failure
emerscape MA 2011
TDIinMA MA 2011

Michigan 2
Saltlick48103 MI 2009
icebox114 MI 2010

Missouri 1
STL-JSW MO 2010

Mississippi 2
Sharpie MS 2009
xtdilover MS 2009

Maryland 1
cankicker MD 2009

N Carolina 9
tonydec NC 2009
NC Chicklady NC 2009
y0bailey NC 2009
dustingebhardt NC 2010
lindsaysuchy NC 2010
Cosmos NC 2012
Baltman195 NC 2012
New Hampshire 1
Nickofari NH 2009

Nevada

New Jersey 8
asrnj77 NJ 2009
rcann NJ 2010
Diesel Wiesel NJ 2009
N2UADTDI NJ 2009
The_Mike NJ 2011
gregert12 NJ 2010
tdiregrets NJ 2009
JCTDI NJ 2009

New Mexico 1
VWJim NM 2011

New York 13
birkie NY 2009
swb1509 NY 2010
TDIFirstTimer NY 2010
Sunberg2 NY 2009
saaronson NY 2010
peterf NY 2009
Jack Sprocket NY 2010
vwmj NY 2009
fred1331 NY 2010
lcjjm4 NY 2010
rickdiculous NY 2010
Susang NY 2010
Colonel A NY 2009


Ohio 3
rickchip OH 2009
steelyeyed OH 2009
TooTall OH 2010

Oklahoma 2
freeman OK 2009
mandy1105 OK 2009


Oregon 3
Haz-matt OR 2009
JohnofD OR 2010
mcnzder OR 2010
mdgreven OR 2011

Pennsylvania 5
Kthackst PA 2010
Absolute Diesel PA 2010
amy1000 PA 2010 first failure
amy1000 PA 2010 second failure
kndonlee PA 2010

Rhode Island 2
tdisky RI 2009
pjcam5 RI 2011

South Carolina 2
Godstang SC. 2012
Wesleybyars SC 2009

Tenneesse 5
MonicaC TN 2010
TDI117 TN 2012
bigmacd TN 2011
tempokat TN 2011
Dave@swamps TN 2011

Texas 25
Maverick395 TX 2009 first failure
Maverick395 TX 2009 second failure
jshoutex TX 2009
catnip TX 2010
Kevin 73 TX 2011
Houston2010tdi TX 2010
carrolltoncorrado TX 2009
PlanoWagen TX 2009
ffdfrontman TX 2010
drckol TX 2009
dickey TX 2010
Tim2112 TX 2009
T Girl TX 2011
TXANN TX 2012
doug67coug TX 2009
tdininja TX 2009
giavid TX 2010
quietTDI TX 2009
JonD-2.7tDallas TX 2011
EasyT TX 2011
Moralesj TX 2011
spanish11 TX 2011
jlockhart TX 2010
tuan209 TX 2009
HozzMidnight TX 2009

Utah 3
53 willys UT 2010
RoccoRcr UT 2011
s3j UT 2009

Vermont 1
Colonel A VT 2009


Virginia 9
O2Waster VA 2009
elester12 VA 2009 first failure
elester12 VA 2009 second failure
freakMike3 VA 2009
jsds VA 2009
talbottw VA 2009
Matt Man VA 2009
BlkJetta01 VA 2009
TDITIM60 VA 2010

Washington 3
planger WA 2011
xenoice WA 2012
tdi one ton WA 2011 pending


West Virginia 3
dweisel WV 2009 Jetta Sedan
dweisel WV 2009 JSW
SCWC_WV WV 2009


Wisconsin 3
spjetta WI 2009
I love my Jetta WI 2010
sickmtbnutcase WI 2009


Canada 7
stylinmama CANADA
Heavyfuel QC CANADA 2009
BrokenTDI BC CANADA 2010
r2k QC CANADA 2010
saltspringtdi BC 2010
Cristian ON 2010
VWascension ON. 2009
State info not available 7
mystreva 2009
Chris & Theresa XXXXXX double failure
Chris & Theresa
RLS1400 2009
Kiwanda 2009
Absolute Diesel 2010
Adrenalinaddict 2010
'16 Ecoboost F150
'12 Suzuki V-Strom 650
'17 Trek Fuel EX8 27.5+
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby Shadow » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:55 pm

Yeah, that seems like it might be a problem. LOL

Knowing that diesel engines have used HPFPs for many years, I really wonder why they haven't worked out the issues yet.
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby AHTOXA » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:24 pm

Yeah. To Rob's point, there are some models listed after 2010 but nowhere near as many as the older ones. Admittedly, I've not checked the age of the updates in the thread so that data might not be fully up to date. What's alarming is that there are quite a few members listed there who had more than one failure on the same vehicle. That, and the fact that the out of warranty replacement cost is 8 grand!
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby Shadow » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:28 pm

AHTOXA wrote:Yeah. To Rob's point, there are some models listed after 2010 but nowhere near as many as the older ones. Admittedly, I've not checked the age of the updates in the thread so that data might not be fully up to date. What's alarming is that there are quite a few members listed there who had more than one failure on the same vehicle. That, and the fact that the out of warranty replacement cost is 8 grand!


$8000? That's beyond ridiculous. Sure, I realize that the labor costs involved in swapping out a HPFP don't even compare with a traditional fuel pump mounted in the fuel tank, but still.....$8K?
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby AHTOXA » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:41 pm

According to the threads I researched back when I was considering the Golf TDI, VW/Audi is footing the bill in vast majority of cases when the vehicle is out of warranty. They are obviously aware of the problem. The exceptions were the HPFP failures caused by improper fuel used, meaning the owners/drivers filled up with gasoline instead.
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby Perpetuus » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:02 pm

About the HPFP failures for the diesel engines- I think that it is probably being overemphasized because of the known problems with the HPFP issues with the VW gasoline direct injection engines (Pre-2009). Remember, the number of failures you see for the HPFP reported might be large for the diesel, but we don`t know what % of total diesels sold that represents.

But, since I actually own a VW GTI with a HPFP, I can tell you that the problem is real. I haven`t experienced it first hand yet, but I am highly aware of it.

In the VW world, some call it the exploding fuel pump. Basically, the first gen VW group cars to use the HPFP for gasoline direct injection had this issue (up to mid 2008). The HPFP in these cars were designed to run off a `cam-follower` system off the engine`s camshaft. Depending on your drive mode of the car (i.e. how hard you drive the car, how religiously you adhere to your scheduled maintenance, etc.), you might experience either premature HPFP wear, or just complete failure. The failure occurs with the cam follower piece physically wearing down and punched through with the repeated stress on the `cam-follower`piece. Some guys have this cam-follower piece completely shredded down... guess where the remnants of the metal shavings go?

Of course, boosting the power level of the engine will also accelerate this failure. VW has an extended warranty for the HPFP for these cars, but even with that, no one wants to have any of the problems. The issue with the HPFP is largely unheard of for VW group cars built after 2008.5 with their improved HPFP designs. Still, because of direct injection, there is another set of problems, such as the intake valves getting caked up with carbon deposits (among other places). This is because the fuel never reaches the back side of the intake valves with direct injection, effectively reducing the fuel`s ability to clean the valves. That`s one reason why the Scion FR-S and Subaru BR-Z have both direct injection and traditional port injection.

But anyway, there are solutions for both the HPFP and direct injection issues. Realistically speaking, neither are huge concerns with the latest generation of these engines, but of course it`s still not as proven as traditional port injection systems. I have solutions to solve these issues with my car (like water meth injection, and a HPFP converted to run off a roller instead of a cam), but it does require money to get done.

Here`s what the wear on the cam follower looks like, pulled from my car at 40,000 KM.
Image

Others have it much worse:
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby Rope-Pusher » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:01 am

Spraying fuel on the back sid of an intake valve isn't all fun-n-games. It can lead to deposits, which affect emissions and driveability. Changes in fuel formulation have helped, but at one time it was common for some engines to be more prone than others and blasting the deposits off with walnut shell pieces became a fairly common temporary remedy...and hey, you can add the walnut meats to your chocolate cookie recipe.
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby bk7794 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:22 pm

@ perpetuus I remember reading somewhere about the 06 TDI having an issue with the camshaft wearing out. Is that similar to what you are talking about?'
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Re: Honda CR-Z 6MT

Postby Perpetuus » Sun May 05, 2013 1:26 pm

bk7794 wrote:@ perpetuus I remember reading somewhere about the 06 TDI having an issue with the camshaft wearing out. Is that similar to what you are talking about?'


Wow, sorry for the late reply. Been away lately.

I am not too familiar with the 06 TDI, but I just read about it briefly and see that the camshaft lobes are worn for the TDI. On the 2.0T FSI, it's the camshaft (lobe) follower for the high pressure fuel pump that gets worn out. I stocked up on several of these cam followers already since it's basically a wear and tear item. Well, such are the consequences of being an early adopter of gasoline direct injection...
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