That is pretty bad ass.
Good luck.
Romans Probe GT UPDATE: borla with videos
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AHTOXA
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Re: Romans Probe GT
'19 Toyota 4Runner TRD ORP
'12 Suzuki V-Strom 650
'12 Suzuki V-Strom 650
Re: Romans Probe GT
If this works...just wow. Because I don't know how you can adapt a transmission and have all the mounts and fittings to be the same strength as original. It just doesn't seem possible.
Make sure you document every step, and take lots of pics.
Make sure you document every step, and take lots of pics.
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permabanned
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permabanned
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Re: Romans Probe GT
small update on the trans adaptation.
me and my friend took a bunch of measurements for the adapter plate a few days ago.
for the block side, we put down a reference line and marked it at crank centerline. from there we measured distance and angle to all the bellhousing holes.
same for the trans. reference line running thru the input shaft and the diff, and angles and distances to the bolt holes.
he went at it in something, maybe adobe illustrator or something. i downloaded AutoCAD and it was too comlicated. i then got a free copy of microstation from university of toledo and drew up my own adapter plate
heres a picture of the KL block bellhousing pattern
heres a pic of the F23 bellhousing pattern. not plug and play by any means
after we got the measurements for the bolt holes, overlaying them and aligning the reference centers got us the adapter plate. when i did that, i saw that both the KL and the F23 bellhousings are all in the 16-18cm radius from the center. i also put the trans on the block and it looks like it will line right up without any clearance issues. the axle seal and the diff housing barely doesnt clear the KL block but the adapter plate will fix that.
anyway heres what i came up with in microstation. green is the KL bellhousing pattern, red is the F23 bellhousing pattern. blue shape is the proposed adapter plate shape. yellow cross is the reference center
i also found out that the cavalier clutch fits perfectly into the KL flywheel. i might need to offset the pressure plate about 1/16th of an inch to give room to a thicker cavy clutch disk, but as far as everything else, stock PGT pressure plate bolted right on without any issues. only problem was the fatter than PGT clutch disk needing some extra room. no problem, either machine the flywheel down 1/16th or put in washers between the flywheel and the PP
i also tried a PGT axle in the F23 diff and it doesnt fit by a long shot. PGT axle is way too fat to go into the diff, so ill have to either make cavy axles fit or ill try a 4 cyl probe axle to see if that might work.
another problem which is a much bigger issue than the axles is the starter. GM starters usually bolt on the block side of the clutch, whereas PGT starter is on the transmission side. the F23 obviously doesnt have a cutout in the bellhousing for the starter, and i will most likely have to cut a piece out for the PGT starter to fit in there. for that to work ill have to break off the plastic part of the throwout bearing and run a braided steel clutch line thru a different hole in the bellhousing. ill figure it out
thats the progress so far. until this point i havent looked at the clutch release geometry. i figure going by educated guessing that if i use a 3/4" adapter plate, ill need a 1/2 to a 9/16 thick flywheel spacer. but ill figure that out later.
me and my friend took a bunch of measurements for the adapter plate a few days ago.
for the block side, we put down a reference line and marked it at crank centerline. from there we measured distance and angle to all the bellhousing holes.
same for the trans. reference line running thru the input shaft and the diff, and angles and distances to the bolt holes.
he went at it in something, maybe adobe illustrator or something. i downloaded AutoCAD and it was too comlicated. i then got a free copy of microstation from university of toledo and drew up my own adapter plate
heres a picture of the KL block bellhousing pattern
heres a pic of the F23 bellhousing pattern. not plug and play by any means
after we got the measurements for the bolt holes, overlaying them and aligning the reference centers got us the adapter plate. when i did that, i saw that both the KL and the F23 bellhousings are all in the 16-18cm radius from the center. i also put the trans on the block and it looks like it will line right up without any clearance issues. the axle seal and the diff housing barely doesnt clear the KL block but the adapter plate will fix that.
anyway heres what i came up with in microstation. green is the KL bellhousing pattern, red is the F23 bellhousing pattern. blue shape is the proposed adapter plate shape. yellow cross is the reference center
i also found out that the cavalier clutch fits perfectly into the KL flywheel. i might need to offset the pressure plate about 1/16th of an inch to give room to a thicker cavy clutch disk, but as far as everything else, stock PGT pressure plate bolted right on without any issues. only problem was the fatter than PGT clutch disk needing some extra room. no problem, either machine the flywheel down 1/16th or put in washers between the flywheel and the PP
i also tried a PGT axle in the F23 diff and it doesnt fit by a long shot. PGT axle is way too fat to go into the diff, so ill have to either make cavy axles fit or ill try a 4 cyl probe axle to see if that might work.
another problem which is a much bigger issue than the axles is the starter. GM starters usually bolt on the block side of the clutch, whereas PGT starter is on the transmission side. the F23 obviously doesnt have a cutout in the bellhousing for the starter, and i will most likely have to cut a piece out for the PGT starter to fit in there. for that to work ill have to break off the plastic part of the throwout bearing and run a braided steel clutch line thru a different hole in the bellhousing. ill figure it out
thats the progress so far. until this point i havent looked at the clutch release geometry. i figure going by educated guessing that if i use a 3/4" adapter plate, ill need a 1/2 to a 9/16 thick flywheel spacer. but ill figure that out later.
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padauk_dust
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: some transmission fitment progress
Killer man. Good luck with this phase.
We'll be following ya!
We'll be following ya!
'88 Accord DX
'96 VFR750
'96 VFR750
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comingbackdown
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: some transmission fitment progress
God damn that is sweet.
Keep it up, man.
Keep it up, man.
1999 Ram 2500 4x4 360, 1986 Ford LTD 3.8L, 1983 Yamaha Venture Royale 1200
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permabanned
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: some transmission fitment progress
got the throttle body today. its a 65mm compared to the stock 60mm. for all intents and purposes, the PGT shouldve came with a 65mm stock because its a decent sized engine that needs a lot of air. but whatever, i got a great deal on it, 75+ shipping.
this also meant that i could hook my IAC back up because i got tired of dealing with the random 1100 rpm idle for no reason whatsoever. theres nothing on the car that would make it idle higher than the idle screw tells it to yet the idle still crept up to 1100 overtime. whatever.
when i got it, the guy obviously liked his ultra gray RTV, the f**k was coated everywhere with RTV. it probably had enought RTV stuck to the back of it to do an oil pan gasket.
stocker 60mm and my new 65mm, front view. significant difference
back view. also significant difference
shamless plug of my ported intake manifold. what a great modification
i forgot to take a pic of the throttle body and IAC assembled together. i also had to find some random hose to extend the coolant lines back to the IAC and in progress leaked a shitload of coolant on the ground.
assembled
when i cleaned all the RTV and whatever the guy put in it, i saw that the throttle plate wasnt sealing perfect in the bore. no huge gaps that would make it idle at 4500 or anything like that, but i could see light thru it in a few spots. i didnt feel like putting the stocker back on so i went ahead and put it on how it was.
i also found that the knock sensor wire was ripped out of the connector. o joy, repinning connectors, but knock sensor is a big deal. without the knock sensor the ECU goes into limp mode and runs like ass. it was just a shielding wire that was ripped, and the knock sensor is grounded thru the block, the important signal wire was fine, but im not a hack anymore so i fixed it anyway.
at first it wouldnt fire for the life of it. after about 5 minutes of cranking and messing with the gas pedal and idle screw and iac plug, i finally saw that i bumped into the igniter trigger wire and pulled it off the igniter. put that back on and she fired up instantly. idling around 1000-1300 with the idle screw all the way closed, and it idled even higher with the IAC plugged in because of fast idle. for now IAC is unplugged because i dont need it with the idle at 1000 rpms, but its driveable. ill have to pull the throttle body off in the next few days and possibly resort to my hack past to seal the throttle plate. when its done, it should seal so it wont even start with the throttle closed and idle screw closed, so no air would be getting past the throttle body at all. i might have to put some JBweld around gaps in the throttle plate to get it seal perfect then blend it in with a flapwheel so its as small as possible so it doesnt get in the airflows way. i wont deal with the 1300 rpm idle for more than a few days, and im definitely wont pile heaps of JBweld in there. that would fix the sealing issue but defeat the purpose of the throttle body
took it out for a drive and the difference was immediately noticed. the throttle response is much more jumpier and edgy and crisp, it revs out much quicker than before. it definitely has great throttle response, doesnt feel like theres a manhole lid bolted to the back of the engine. when driving before, it would run into a wall around 6500 rpms, now it goes almost to the rev limiter before it runs into the wall. doesnt necessarily feel faster but having the extra 700-800 useable rpms up top will help out. before id rev to 7500 just for the sound, now theres a purpose because i can make power up there. also with the air leaking past the throttle plate, i get awesome SRT4 popping under engine braking. either way, my exhaust kills the top end. if i had 2.5" exhaust it would pull hard to the rev limiter, but at this point, i dont care for mods that wont carry over into boost, and a 2.5" exhaust is too small for a turbo setup, so im not spending money on it.
so as you can see, its not as bolt on affair with these cars, but for 75 dollars i cant really complain a whole lot. the guy on probetalk who owns a machine shop charges 160 for a bored TB, so half of that with a few minor issues is a good deal IMO. after i get it sealing perfect it will be excellent and ill be happy. also because i lost quite a bit of water wetter filled coolant and i highly doubt its gonna get freezing again for a long time, i put straight water in it, now it warms up in minutes instead of 10s of minutes.
in the next few days i gotta take care of some other stuff like making a bracket for my VAF (volume air flow) because the piston in it that measures the air flow is spring loaded and it was discovered that having it tilted changes the readings because of the gravity pulling on the piston. it has to be horizontal to read properly. yet another reason to go megasquirt and MAP sensor like normal people.
this also meant that i could hook my IAC back up because i got tired of dealing with the random 1100 rpm idle for no reason whatsoever. theres nothing on the car that would make it idle higher than the idle screw tells it to yet the idle still crept up to 1100 overtime. whatever.
when i got it, the guy obviously liked his ultra gray RTV, the f**k was coated everywhere with RTV. it probably had enought RTV stuck to the back of it to do an oil pan gasket.
stocker 60mm and my new 65mm, front view. significant difference
back view. also significant difference
shamless plug of my ported intake manifold. what a great modification
i forgot to take a pic of the throttle body and IAC assembled together. i also had to find some random hose to extend the coolant lines back to the IAC and in progress leaked a shitload of coolant on the ground.
assembled
when i cleaned all the RTV and whatever the guy put in it, i saw that the throttle plate wasnt sealing perfect in the bore. no huge gaps that would make it idle at 4500 or anything like that, but i could see light thru it in a few spots. i didnt feel like putting the stocker back on so i went ahead and put it on how it was.
i also found that the knock sensor wire was ripped out of the connector. o joy, repinning connectors, but knock sensor is a big deal. without the knock sensor the ECU goes into limp mode and runs like ass. it was just a shielding wire that was ripped, and the knock sensor is grounded thru the block, the important signal wire was fine, but im not a hack anymore so i fixed it anyway.
at first it wouldnt fire for the life of it. after about 5 minutes of cranking and messing with the gas pedal and idle screw and iac plug, i finally saw that i bumped into the igniter trigger wire and pulled it off the igniter. put that back on and she fired up instantly. idling around 1000-1300 with the idle screw all the way closed, and it idled even higher with the IAC plugged in because of fast idle. for now IAC is unplugged because i dont need it with the idle at 1000 rpms, but its driveable. ill have to pull the throttle body off in the next few days and possibly resort to my hack past to seal the throttle plate. when its done, it should seal so it wont even start with the throttle closed and idle screw closed, so no air would be getting past the throttle body at all. i might have to put some JBweld around gaps in the throttle plate to get it seal perfect then blend it in with a flapwheel so its as small as possible so it doesnt get in the airflows way. i wont deal with the 1300 rpm idle for more than a few days, and im definitely wont pile heaps of JBweld in there. that would fix the sealing issue but defeat the purpose of the throttle body
took it out for a drive and the difference was immediately noticed. the throttle response is much more jumpier and edgy and crisp, it revs out much quicker than before. it definitely has great throttle response, doesnt feel like theres a manhole lid bolted to the back of the engine. when driving before, it would run into a wall around 6500 rpms, now it goes almost to the rev limiter before it runs into the wall. doesnt necessarily feel faster but having the extra 700-800 useable rpms up top will help out. before id rev to 7500 just for the sound, now theres a purpose because i can make power up there. also with the air leaking past the throttle plate, i get awesome SRT4 popping under engine braking. either way, my exhaust kills the top end. if i had 2.5" exhaust it would pull hard to the rev limiter, but at this point, i dont care for mods that wont carry over into boost, and a 2.5" exhaust is too small for a turbo setup, so im not spending money on it.
so as you can see, its not as bolt on affair with these cars, but for 75 dollars i cant really complain a whole lot. the guy on probetalk who owns a machine shop charges 160 for a bored TB, so half of that with a few minor issues is a good deal IMO. after i get it sealing perfect it will be excellent and ill be happy. also because i lost quite a bit of water wetter filled coolant and i highly doubt its gonna get freezing again for a long time, i put straight water in it, now it warms up in minutes instead of 10s of minutes.
in the next few days i gotta take care of some other stuff like making a bracket for my VAF (volume air flow) because the piston in it that measures the air flow is spring loaded and it was discovered that having it tilted changes the readings because of the gravity pulling on the piston. it has to be horizontal to read properly. yet another reason to go megasquirt and MAP sensor like normal people.
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permabanned
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: 65mm throttle body
so if you havent seen this in the misc thread, ill post it in here as well. me and my dad picked up a parts car for 300 bux. borla on it, another borla in it, 16" enkeis and other misc shit we both need.
he put his borla on and as soon as i did a pull in it i was sold, pulled my car in and put the borla on that night. mine was more work because the previous owner had to gay it all up by cutting the pipe when theres a clamp 2 inches away from where he cut it
anyways, i had to cut off a pair of flanges off my magnaflow exhaust to put on this exhaust. i got carried away during the install so i didnt take any pictures. its amazing tho. silent at idle, barely audible driving around and deep and powerful quiet sound under load. its amazing how quiet it is for a completely straight thru exhaust, no cat, no chambered muffler, nothing. all straight thru. its nice not having to yell to people sitting next to you when your crusing down the street.
heres some vids from last night, both with 3 people in the car so its slow as balls, probably a low 15 car with the people in it. with just me, it moves out hard, definitely low 14s
doing a pull from a dig with windows up. cameras dont really give you a true perspective of loudness, but at no point during the pull was it so loud that i couldnt hold a conversation wihout raising my voice, its that quiet. camera makes it seem much louder and the sound is little deeper in real life. this is from a stop to about 85
then we did another video from a 1st gear roll to 100. this time it was windows down.
as you can see, it sounds same with windows up and down, and this is probably my 2nd favorite thing about this after the quietness. my old exhaust sounded like ass with windows up, and with windows down it sounded good, but interior resonance was crap. this sound exact same windows up and down
my other friend with expensive baller camera took a better vid today so when he posts it up ill post it here
he put his borla on and as soon as i did a pull in it i was sold, pulled my car in and put the borla on that night. mine was more work because the previous owner had to gay it all up by cutting the pipe when theres a clamp 2 inches away from where he cut it
anyways, i had to cut off a pair of flanges off my magnaflow exhaust to put on this exhaust. i got carried away during the install so i didnt take any pictures. its amazing tho. silent at idle, barely audible driving around and deep and powerful quiet sound under load. its amazing how quiet it is for a completely straight thru exhaust, no cat, no chambered muffler, nothing. all straight thru. its nice not having to yell to people sitting next to you when your crusing down the street.
heres some vids from last night, both with 3 people in the car so its slow as balls, probably a low 15 car with the people in it. with just me, it moves out hard, definitely low 14s
doing a pull from a dig with windows up. cameras dont really give you a true perspective of loudness, but at no point during the pull was it so loud that i couldnt hold a conversation wihout raising my voice, its that quiet. camera makes it seem much louder and the sound is little deeper in real life. this is from a stop to about 85
then we did another video from a 1st gear roll to 100. this time it was windows down.
as you can see, it sounds same with windows up and down, and this is probably my 2nd favorite thing about this after the quietness. my old exhaust sounded like ass with windows up, and with windows down it sounded good, but interior resonance was crap. this sound exact same windows up and down
my other friend with expensive baller camera took a better vid today so when he posts it up ill post it here
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padauk_dust
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: borla with videos
damn, that thing moves quick.
exhaust sounds really good, much throatier than i thought it would
exhaust sounds really good, much throatier than i thought it would
2012 VW GTI - 6MT
2001 Infiniti QX4 - 4AT
2001 Infiniti QX4 - 4AT
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1974Alfa5spd
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: borla with videos
AUGH! I want a car that sounds like that ssoo bad.
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Rope-Pusher
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: borla with videos
Record a copy and then play it through your entertainment system1974Alfa5spd wrote:AUGH! I want a car that sounds like that ssoo bad.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
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comingbackdown
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: borla with videos
HAHAHA!Rope-Pusher wrote:Record a copy and then play it through your entertainment system1974Alfa5spd wrote:AUGH! I want a car that sounds like that ssoo bad.
That said, awesome sound, Roman.
1999 Ram 2500 4x4 360, 1986 Ford LTD 3.8L, 1983 Yamaha Venture Royale 1200
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94Corolla5Speed
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: borla with videos
I'll be the first to go against the grain slightly. I'm not saying it sounds bad, I would love to have that sound in my car, but honestly, after hearing so many VR6 symphonies, it just can't compare. Still sounds good for a V6 though.
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1974Alfa5spd
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Re: Romans Probe GT UPDATE: borla with videos
What's an entertainment system? If you mean stereo, what stereo?Rope-Pusher wrote:Record a copy and then play it through your entertainment system1974Alfa5spd wrote:AUGH! I want a car that sounds like that ssoo bad.