Graham's 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT

[ihartmacz]

So I'm not really sure why you want to call these bad engines. They don't rev as high because the are OHV engines. A 5,500 or 6,000 RPM redline is good enough, it's more power where it counts.

The sound of this engine is down to the individual, I happen to like it.

[permabanned]

Don't pull that "logic" bullshit here buddy. We make judgments based on emotion and preexisting opinion

[comingbackdown]

Don't pull that "logic" bullshit here buddy. We make judgments based on emotion and preexisting opinion

The world works by way of logic, man.

[watkins]

Unfortunately it does not. Think Creationists.

[theholycow]

It's not just creationists...it's all sorts of people, each with a different area in which they try to force the world to operate illogically.

[noob5,000,000]

[watkins]

It's not just creationists...it's all sorts of people, each with a different area in which they try to force the world to operate illogically.

Merely a well-know example.

[comingbackdown]

Unfortunately it does not. Think Creationists.

I'm a creationist. Does that therefore make all my thoughts, beliefs, actions, deductions, suggestions, etc. (the list is eternal) Illogical?

[ihartmacz]

Just because you're a creationist doesn't mean you think illogically. We can't judge people based on labels.

[theholycow]

I don't think watkins was suggesting that, and I certainly wouldn't. I suspect that his point was about a specific issue that is pushed by Creationists (not ALL Creationists, just some) in a specific context.

[comingbackdown]

I don't think watkins was suggesting that, and I certainly wouldn't. I suspect that his point was about a specific issue that is pushed by Creationists (not ALL Creationists, just some) in a specific context.

Here's one to f**k all of you.

Logic, in reality, comes down to a person's own personal logic.

We, as human beings, have a base logic. Then each person has a logic all their own.

[watkins]

No.
Logic is the study of rational argumentation.
Rational: good, legitimate reason to believe.
Argumentation: a set of sentences such that one sentence - the conclusion - is claimed to follow from the other sentences - the premises. Good arguments must be valid and well-grounded in reality.

Logic can be broken down into deductive logic in which the conclusion must be true, and inductive logic in which the conclusion could potentially be false. Even in the case of inductive logic, the rules of rationality and good argumentation still apply.


To define logic as you did, by saying that logic comes down to logic, is in and of it self an illogical statement. Besides the taboo of attempting to define a word by using the word in the definition, you make the incorrect assumption that logic is vastly different from person to person. Rational thinking is very much within a tight confine in any given culture. Yes, there is most certainly wiggle room, but with a few exceptions, many due to mental deficiencies, logic is a rather standard study. Especially given the requirements of rationality and quality argument. Logic of a group or individual can of course be overridden or altered by brain washing of one form or another. Organized religion and fascist regimes are prime examples.

[Tinton]

ill sell you my getrag with a new clutch and a pressure plate

of all the things GM sucks at (like staying in business), they sure know how to build a transmission. getrag is obviously not GM, its german, but GM automatics are damn good. i do however, like how they way underrate everything. F40 from a g6 gxp is rated for like 220 foot pounds, people bolt them to LS7s and put them in fieros all day and they hold just fine.

grand ams and prixes would be good cars if it wasnt for that exhaust sound tho. GM never got the memo that you dont make a v6 by cutting 2 cylinders off a V8. those cars with their 90* v6s sound just plain terrible. v6 mustangs sound like shit, but 3100,3400 and 3800 are terrible sounding.

Eh, you're a noob when it comes to Fieros, GM, and GM parts. People don't bolt F40's to LS7's and drop them in Fieros very often, one guy (V8Archie) did it and AFAIK he babies the car like none other. Just 1 hard shift into 2nd gear in that car would sheer ALL the teeth off 2nd, or make the case shatter, or blow an axle. When it comes to making BIG power in Fieros (350+) the best solutions have always been to switch to a 4T65HD or to swap the drivetrain layout to longitudinal with a Porsche or Toronado transaxle. The fastest transverse-drivetrain Fiero runs mid 10's, and it has a turbo 3800 in it with 550 hp and a 4T65HD.

Yea, its true that GM makes good automatic transmissions. I don't even think they build manual transmissions anymore, I'm pretty sure that the Muncie 4-speed in my '86 Fiero is one of the last manual transmissions GM made all on its own. The modern FWD 5-speeds/6-speed are all Getrag-derived, and the RWD 6-speeds are Tremec made I'm pretty sure.

All 3800's sound nasty, I don't like them at all. I think the 60* V6's in my Fieros sound much better. You said 3100 and 3400 though, along with 3800, those are different engines altogether, they're 60* like my 2.8L V6's. In fact, the GM 3.1L and 3.4L 60* V6's are almost the exact same engine, except for different crank and oiling channels. I could put a 3.4 in my '88 Fiero and all the stock parts would fit. I could go to Autox with like 40 more hp and 50 more tq than stock and no one would know unless they read a serial number or w/e on the block.

I think 3800's are nice though, even if they don't sound very cool. Besides the SBC, the Buick 90* V6 is another legend from GM's past that continues to perform well today. I mean, there's plenty of fast Grand Prix's and Grand Nationals running around to prove it .

im sorry i couldnt hear anything you said over the sound of the canadian flag coming out of your mouth

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[ihartmacz]

[ihartmacz]

[bump]

New pictures, bitches.