hard to puch into gear

[michaelchen]

hey, there, for my 1995 Subaru Legacy with 180k on it, I had hard time to push into gears, especially for the third gear, I always need to push the gear slightly right first , then push it upwards to get into position. called a transmission mechanician today, and told me to replace the clutch at cost between $600-$1200. called another mechanician, and told me that it is not a big deal, just the "central plate" is mispositioned.

any suggestions?

[LHOswald]

the only way it could be your clutch is if the hydraulic pump went and the clutch isn't fully disconnecting even when your pushing the clutch to the floor. idk what a central plate is, but from the sound of it im thinking it could be your selector fork or the bushings. easy fix really. i remember reading somewhere that 3rd gear in subaru's are notorious for going under hard driving, especially with aftermarket engine parts so the tranny can't handle the extra torque. if i were you, i would try to double clutch it into gear if you could. at least into 3rd. if you don't know how to double clutch, just drive it normally. but i would have a mechanic look at it soon if you could

[michaelchen]

as it is getting harder and harder to press the clutch down to the floor, I usually only press it deep enough (usually halfway) to change gear. from what you said, it seems that I should really change this habit. (but it is really hard press the clutch all the way to the floor, is this a problem?)

[LHOswald]

no, but if you don't know EXACTLY where your friction point on your clutch is, you should be pushing it to the floor, or at least far past the point where it catches. i shift like you shift normally, but if your not extremely comfortable and knowledgeable about how everything in the car acts, you should just do it like you were taught. if when your pushing your pedal to the floor the problem goes away, then you probably ate up your synchros when you weren't shifting properly.

[michaelchen]

I used to press the clutch all the way to the floor until one day (after two years driving) I felt it was not necessary, and can change gears with the clutch pressed only halfway down. I should have passed the friction point. Just watched a double clutch video, and see the driver did it very fast. I don't think I can press my clutch that fast at all, there must be a problem with my clutch. I need to use my full strength to press it down quickly. shouldn't be that tough, right?

[LHOswald]

if your watching a video of double clutching, most likely its of a downshift. you never need to double clutch downshift that quickly unless your racing. put up a link of the video you watched about double clutching. what im talking about is double clutch upshifting. just do a normal shift, but when you pass through neutral, let the clutch up. when the rpms are almost down to where you would fully let the clutch out on a normal shift, clutch in, put into next gear, and release clutch.

if your clutch requires all of your leg force to push to the floor, you either need to move your seat up a bit so its more in your legs comfortable range of motion, you need a new clutch, or your just weak. i've never heard of a stock clutch in any car (except super cars) that the clutch was so heavy it needed your full strength to push to the floor.

just to be safe, i don't think it would be too expensive just to have a mechanic look at it. but don't let him tell you its something and then have him do it right then. ask him exactly what the part is, what it does, how much its going to cost for the part, and in labor, why it went, if it was your fault it went, and then go home and do research and see if everything he told you was true. or call other mechanics and see if they say pretty much the same thing he did.

[FDSpirit]

as it is getting harder and harder to press the clutch down to the floor, I usually only press it deep enough (usually halfway) to change gear. from what you said, it seems that I should really change this habit. (but it is really hard press the clutch all the way to the floor, is this a problem?)

Could be you aren't sitting close enough. Some of the others will say the same thing. I'd try adjusting the seat.

[theholycow]

I can't imagine a clutch requiring all of your strength to push. That would be awful, and I'd guess something is wrong with it.

Have you considered just skipping 3rd? Unless you have long ratios it should be easy to just rev 2nd up a little higher and enter 4th a little lower, skipping 3rd entirely. You might sacrifice a small amount of fuel economy, and you won't accelerate as fast in a drag race, but other than that it should be fine...and it avoids the whole messy/expensive business of dealing with mechanics whose honesty or competency may be dubious.

[michaelchen]

got a call from the mechanician today, telling me it is not a big problem, only one spring is broken. the spring from Subaru is $19, and labor would be a couple of hundreds, which surprise me -:) I have no tool and experience on fixing a car. maybe i should stay with this mechanician? at least he is better than the other mechanician, who suggested me to replace the clutch completely with cost over $1000.

[LHOswald]

its mechanic, not mechanician. and if he meant spring as in the diaphragm spring i don't see how if it was broken or worn it could make it harder to press the clutch. if anything, over time as it bends and bends everytime you press the clutch in it should get easier to press, not harder, because the metals in the spring bend and become more malleable. come to think of it, i can't think of anything that would make the clutch that hard to press unless it was a hydraulic problem, but i don't know much about the hydraulic system so i can't say for sure. unless you have a cable clutch, then your just f*cked.

[watkins]

Mechanic + technician = mechanician?

[theholycow]

Mechanic + technician = mechanician?

Agreed, and I like it. He is a technician of mechanical stuff...cool.

michaelchen, it is common for labor to be far more than parts on problems like this (also on home repairs). Did your mechanician name the spring specifically, or just tell you that it's some sort of spring?

[Rope-Pusher]

effort to release clutch typically increases as clutch disk gets thinner from wearing-away of the friction material (geometry of the spring changes as pressure plate moves to compensate for disk wear).

Effort could also increase if clutch release cable (if so equipped) friction increases with wear or age.

Similarly, efficiency of master or slave cylinders (with hydraulic clutch release system) could degrade with wear or age.

Geometry of clutch release lever could degrade in response to clutch disk wear, resulting in higher clutch pedal input force being required to achieve full clutch release.

Self-adjusting clutches (not self-adjusting clutch release linkage) try to keep the clutch pedal effort constant as the disk wears by keeping the clamping spring geometry in it's sweet spot.

[Rope-Pusher]

5 or 6-speed Amish transmissions and their shift systems typically are designed with cross-car springs that return the shift lever to align with the 3rd/4th gear plane. If you have to side-load the shift lever to get it to go into 3rd gear, something is probably mis-adjusted, bent or broken in either the external or internal shift systems.

When the shift lever is in 3rd or 4th gear positions, check for side-to-side freeplay. It should be almost equal amount to either side. If there is 2x as much freeplay to the left as to the right, something is probably wrong.

[michaelchen]

when in neutral, I checked side-to-side freeplay, it is easy to pull it to the driver side with a finger, but need more push to move the lever to the passenger side, though the distance on both sides are probably equal.

The mechanics has changed a spring, which he didn't know the name, but showed me the diagram. The above side-2-side test is after this fix. The car is slightly easier to drive. Also I am using double-clutch technique now, and really enjoy the extremely smooth entering of the lever when I do it in proper way most of time.

I also moved the seat to front, which makes my life easier too.

Thanks for your help!