Grinding on cold days

[WA1DH]

I seem to be having a new problem that comes and goes now that the weather is colder. My second gear synchro hasn't been the greatest from day one (it gives a quick grind if I pull it into second too hard). It seems I'm more likely to grind it if I DC into 2nd versus just holding it with a light touch and letting it sync up.

Just the other night I started the car (it was in the 20s out), waited maybe 30 seconds, and drove off in first across a parking lot. I pulled onto the street, sped up, went to put it in second, the synchro grabs like normal, except instead of syncing up and sliding into second, it felt like it synced up, but it slid into second and GRIND. I threw it in third instead and mashed on the gas to overcome the lugging. This morning it did the same thing. Feels like it's going into 2nd like normal, but then it grinds. The grind lasts as long as I hold it in second, and is either a light grind (teeth lightly skipping over each other) or louder depending on how hard I try to pull into gear.

If I'm not being clear enough, here's what happens normally:
Speed up in first
Pull down into second
Feel a 'click' as the synchro grabs
Synchro takes a second to sync up
Slides into second (no grind)

And what happens on and off when it's cold:
Pull down into second
Feel a 'click' as the synchro grabs
Synchro takes a second to sync up
Slides into second and GRIND
Grinds for a second while I hope it will just go into gear
Give up, throw it in 3rd, gas to the floor to overcome lugging

It seems if I let the car 'warm up' for a minute or two it never happens. It also seems to happen less if I rev it a little higher in first before shifting to second. It never happens after I've been driving for a while, just that first time.

Any ideas on the cause or what I should do to avoid this problem? If it makes any difference I'm running Shell Rotella (10W40 I think?) in the tranny. I just changed it about 2 months ago from the auto transmission fluid that was in there.

Thanks.

[theholycow]

what I should do to avoid this problem?

This:

It also seems to happen less if I rev it a little higher in first before shifting to second.

[WA1DH]

But what's the explanation for that? I would think it would grind worse that way (if it did grind), not the opposite.

[ihartmacz]

This is pretty normal - mine does it, too!

The gears are synced more easily with more RPM with less friction between syncros, also, more oil is being slung around in the transmission with the higher RPM.

Don't lug you engine, please. You're not hurting the trans very much, try double-clutching or shifting at a higher RPM. Don't do 3rd gear at like 5mph - bad things happen when you lug the engine.

Why do people floor the accelerator in a car with a standard and not downshift? You're just wasting time! I almost never go more than half throttle with out downshifting.

[WA1DH]

Thanks for the info. I don't normally lug it, but when it won't go in 2nd, I don't really have any other choice. 1st is too low, 2nd won't work, so 3rd is all I can do. I'll try revving higher from now on before shifting.

[theholycow]

Don't lug you engine, please. You're not hurting the trans very much, try double-clutching or shifting at a higher RPM. Don't do 3rd gear at like 5mph - bad things happen when you lug the engine.

It is impossible to lug most modern engines. It runs or it stalls. Lugging disappeared when computer-controlled ignition and knock sensors became common.

Why do people floor the accelerator in a car with a standard and not downshift? You're just wasting time! I almost never go more than half throttle with out downshifting.

In the Rabbit it increases fuel economy unless you do it so severely that you do not accelerate at all.

The Rabbit is a good match for me because I enjoy letting torque quietly do its job at low RPM.

[WA1DH]

Well I tried some of the suggestions this afternoon. It was (still is) freezing out today. It still sucks going into second. I don't want to rev it too high while it's still cold, but I revved a little higher than normal (2500 rpm) before trying to shift 1-2. I held it at the gate in 2.. and waited.. and waited.. about 3-4 seconds and it would not let me in. So I just threw it in 3 and feathered the clutch/gas. A few hundred feet later I came to a light and had to stop. When I went to go again, same deal, but I gave a little harder tug into 2nd, and the synchro let me in, but it just ground. So, popped it into 3rd again and got going that way. I had to drive through some stop/go city traffic (North Providence for the locals) and it progressively got better as the car warmed up. By the time I got to my destination (~15 min) it was shifting normally into second.

Maybe my gear oil sucks for the winter? As I said before, I'm running Rotella 10W-40 in the gearbox. This is my first winter with this car so I have no idea if this is 'normal' or not.

[94Corolla5Speed]

You need to switch to Redline MT-90 if your car takes it, stat. Buy a number of bottles, put the recommended amount in, drive a week or two, and do it again to make sure all the old stuff is out completely.

[WA1DH]

You need to switch to Redline MT-90 if your car takes it, stat. Buy a number of bottles, put the recommended amount in, drive a week or two, and do it again to make sure all the old stuff is out completely.

Stat?

I'm about $300 and several hours into a cylinder head swap on the car tonight. I was thinking of trying Pennzoil Synchromesh, but it'll have to wait a little while. I forget what fluids my transmission is safe with (the GL ratings).


Edit: No, the head swap has NOTHING to do with what I've discussed on here. It's a preemptive/safety thing as Escorts are known to drop valve seats in the OEM heads (which means chewed up pistons/bent rods).

[theholycow]

In the Rabbit, 2500rpm in 1st is fast enough for 3rd...would it work in the Escort to just skip 2nd?

It certainly sounds like you might need some different fluid in there. I wouldn't recommend wasting money changing it twice with the expensive stuff just to get rid of any trace of the old stuff...if changing it once does the job, great. Or, change it with cheap but good stuff the first time and then the premium stuff the second time.

I'm not a fan of North Providence. If I need good Italian food or NY System Hot Weiners I can go to Johnston and avoid dealing with North Providence.

[WA1DH]

I'm not a fan of North Providence. If I need good Italian food or NY System Hot Weiners I can go to Johnston and avoid dealing with North Providence.

Only reason I was up there was trying to hunt down a decent set of plug wires for my car. I went through 2 Bosch sets at 2 Autozones and they were garbage (corroded connectors, high resistance). Their store brand (Duralast) for $15 less tested better so that's what I bought At least they have a lifetime warranty.


I could safely skip 2nd revving it to 2500. It's just a bit sluggish being a 4 cyl. If I don't get aggravated and completely dump the clutch making the engine struggle, I can feather the clutch/gas to get it going. The only time I put the gas to the floor with it was when I wasn't expecting it to happen and all of a sudden I find I have no second, and I've revved too high for 1st but too low for 3rd. So I will try to plan accordingly from now on until we get back over 30 and my transmission unfreezes, or I get new fluid, whichever comes first

[watkins]

Only reason I was up there was trying to hunt down a decent set of plug wires for my car. I went through 2 Bosch sets at 2 Autozones and they were garbage (corroded connectors, high resistance). Their store brand (Duralast) for $15 less tested better so that's what I bought At least they have a lifetime warranty.

I could have told you that. Bosch makes some great products (Icon wipers) and some incredibly shitty products (wire sets). It may be the least consistent brand out there in terms of quality across products

[theholycow]

I'm glad to hear that Bosch's beam-style wiper blades are the best. If you want old-fashioned hinged wiper blades, Bosch Excel and Bosch Excel + are the best on the market, IMO.

[watkins]

I find Bosch hinged blades to be completely horrible.

[theholycow]

Which Bosch hinged wiper blades did you use? Looking at their site ( http://www.boschautoparts.com/WiperBlad ... lades.aspx ) I can see that they currently have three models of hinged blades, and I know there's at least one old model that isn't listed.