transmission issue

Synchros shot? Weird noises while shifting? Not sure what needs to be replaced?
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Squint
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transmission issue

Post by Squint »

Backstory: The car my wife drives mostly is 2000 Mazda 626, V6 5sp MT. She got it from an uncle for a very cheap price, as he has a repair shop and had done some repairs on it for someone who didn't want it anymore. Since we've had the car, it's fallen out of 5th gear every now and again, not often, but say maybe once every couple hours if you were cruising on the highway/driving around the city for several hours.
More recently, however, it started falling out of gear regularly. We were driving on the interstate and when we arrived at our destination (I was in a different car), she told me it wouldn't stay in 5th for more than 5 seconds. Since then, it hasn't stayed in 5th. You can put it in gear without any grinding or arguing from transmission, but usually 5-10 seconds later it falls out of gear. The shifter physically moves back to neutral with the car. Trying to hold it in gear does nothing but causes grinding (tried it once...). I talked to a mechanic but I wanted to see what the general community thinks might be the problem before I reveal his suspicions (he didn't actually look at the car).
Ideas?
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

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FDSpirit
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Re: transmission issue

Post by FDSpirit »

Worn synchros are a possibility. Didn't one generation of the 626 have a ton of transmission issues associated with them?
2000 Honda Civic Si- Slightly faster than your grandmomma's grocery getter......slightly.
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Squint
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Re: transmission issue

Post by Squint »

One of the previous generations, I think in like '97 or something they fixed it. Put a beefier transmission in it that did not break down quite as much. I think it was something to do with having an old Ford tranny in it instead of updated one for a few years. The transmission supposedly has good reviews for the 2000 version, especially compared to previous models.
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!
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Re: transmission issue

Post by FDSpirit »

Yep. That's why they were failing. I remember them saying the transmission couldn't handle the heat or something. Hopefully the pusher of ropes, the perforated bovine or a few of our other regulars can help you out.
2000 Honda Civic Si- Slightly faster than your grandmomma's grocery getter......slightly.
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Re: transmission issue

Post by theholycow »

Shifter cable maladjusted could do it.
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Re: transmission issue

Post by Squint »

Would that be something I could check? I'm working on cars more now, but still haven't done too much... Obviously to check the syncro's I'd have to take apart the transmission, but for the shifter cable?
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!
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Re: transmission issue

Post by theholycow »

Hmm...I just looked it up, apparently it's got a rod linkage instead of a cable. It could have a loose bolt, a rotted rubber bushing, etc.

The shifter end should be easy enough to inspect, just patiently disassemble the interior around the shifter until you see how it hooks up and if it looks right. The other end looks like it might be right up against the firewall and rather difficult to access.

See 11 and 12 in this picture for location of the linkage where it attaches to the transmission:
http://arrc.epnet.com/autoapp/9307MAZ/c ... 3MG70L.gif
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Re: transmission issue

Post by watkins »

You consider every few hours to be not often? That happened to my car once and that was too often for my liking.
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Squint
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Re: transmission issue

Post by Squint »

watkins wrote:You consider every few hours to be not often? That happened to my car once and that was too often for my liking.
Not often compared to every 5 seconds. The whole thing is relative. Now we can't drive the thing in 5th. It's a 4 gear manual. Not super useful when there's lots of highways around...
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

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Re: transmission issue

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Interesting that it even goes into gear at all, given that it pops out within 5 seconds and can't be held in gear by hand.

Before it got as bad as it is now, was there any unusual shift knob vibration when you shifted into 5th or when your hand was on the shift knob while you drove it in 5th?

Did / does it kick the shift knob all the way back to the Neutral position?

If you sat still (don't make me turn this car around) and shifted it into 5th gear and then let out the clutch, like you were trying to launch in 5th, would the trans pop out of gear as the clutch started to engage?

Sorta-kinda sounds like it's not getting shifted all the way into gear. That could be a linkage issue (but most likely would also show up as problems into 1st and 3rd gears as well), or a shift fork issue (fork bent or cocking such that it doesn't shove the synchronizer sleeve far enough - not so likely for 5th gear as for a gear you might slam, like 1st gear), or a thrust-bearing issue, such that the gear is moving on the shaft or the shaft is moving in the case and the gear is backing away from the synchronizer sleeve under load.

I would drill a hole into the transmission case and put in a light and a boroscope and look at what is moving relative to what else as you drive the car with both front wheels up off the ground.
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Re: transmission issue

Post by theholycow »

Rope-Pusher wrote:I would drill a hole into the transmission case and put in a light and a boroscope and look at what is moving relative to what else as you drive the car with both front wheels up off the ground.
Wouldn't the shavings from the drill be a terrible thing?

Is it difficult to remove and reinstall a transmission like that, so it can be opened up and inspected? Besides this thread, my friend's sister's VW's slushbox has failed and I'm wondering if I should volunteer...
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Re: transmission issue

Post by Rope-Pusher »

theholycow wrote:
Rope-Pusher wrote:I would drill a hole into the transmission case and put in a light and a boroscope and look at what is moving relative to what else as you drive the car with both front wheels up off the ground.
Wouldn't the shavings from the drill be a terrible thing?

Is it difficult to remove and reinstall a transmission like that, so it can be opened up and inspected? Besides this thread, my friend's sister's VW's slushbox has failed and I'm wondering if I should volunteer...
Bah! The trans case drill shavings are not a concern. They'd pass right through the gear meshes and come out the other side as thin sheets of aluminum. That's how they make aluminum foil, right?

Actually, one of the hardest points can be getting light where you want it and that a mist of trans fluid may block the view of what you are looking for. A competent mechanic might be able to find what's wrong during a tear-down, especially if there were tell-tale wehrmachts from something being out of place.
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Squint
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Re: transmission issue

Post by Squint »

Rope-Pusher wrote:Interesting that it even goes into gear at all, given that it pops out within 5 seconds and can't be held in gear by hand.
She has said she stopped trying for the past month of so, so don't know recently.
Rope-Pusher wrote:Before it got as bad as it is now, was there any unusual shift knob vibration when you shifted into 5th or when your hand was on the shift knob while you drove it in 5th?
Not that I can remember. I did put my hand on it one time when it popped out and tried to hold it in, and that felt terrible, but while it was in gear and working, it didn't seem that odd to me. (I was just learning to drive manual then, pretty darn bad, so I can't promise I am completely accurate. But I don't remember it being very odd.)
Rope-Pusher wrote:Did / does it kick the shift knob all the way back to the Neutral position?
Yes
Rope-Pusher wrote:If you sat still (don't make me turn this car around) and shifted it into 5th gear and then let out the clutch, like you were trying to launch in 5th, would the trans pop out of gear as the clutch started to engage?

Yes dad, and I have not tried, will attempt this weekend.

I'm going to open up the inside and see if I can see the linkages look messed up from the inside, pending I can get it to not pour rain over the eastern half of the US. And Cow, if you wanted to come look, PM me, and we'll see if we can get something set up. I haven't looked into pulling tranny out to look, partially because we're thinking about trading it in (for another SS, don't worry). I'd just like to get a bit more $$ for the trade in. Or make it last a couple months longer to save up a bit more $$ for a new/er car...
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!
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Squint
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Re: transmission issue

Post by Squint »

Update:

I went exploring and can't get to the linkages without being able to get under the car because the way the bolts attach to the plate below shifter (I don't have ramps yet, working on that :/). Rope, were you wanting me to test putting it into 5th with the car off, or on? I tried it with the car off, and it didn't get popped out of gear. I can try with the car on later if you think that'd be different.
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!
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Re: transmission issue

Post by potownrob »

Squint wrote:Rope, were you wanting me to test putting it into 5th with the car off, or on? I tried it with the car off, and it didn't get popped out of gear. I can try with the car on later if you think that'd be different.
i'm pretty sure he wants you to do it with the car on :) 8)
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