Need help solving an intermittent miss

Synchros shot? Weird noises while shifting? Not sure what needs to be replaced?
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theholycow
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by theholycow »

In spirited driving I doubt you're hitting DFCO but you could hit other kinds of fuel cutoff. Potential fuel cut causes include over redline, overheating, problems elsewhere. Then there's always failures (rather than commanded shutoff) such as the fuel pump, fuel filter (we talked about it but I can't remember if you replaced it or not), injectors, etc...and ignition too.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

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theholycow wrote:In spirited driving I doubt you're hitting DFCO but you could hit other kinds of fuel cutoff. Potential fuel cut causes include over redline, overheating, problems elsewhere. Then there's always failures (rather than commanded shutoff) such as the fuel pump, fuel filter (we talked about it but I can't remember if you replaced it or not), injectors, etc...and ignition too.
No no I doubted that too. I didn't think I hit the redline...but no tach so I might have. No overheat, but I am going with problems elsewhere. I am looking toward fuel possibly. Not sure though...I have thoroughly checked the ignition system but with it being new I am having my doubts Fuel filter is new. Fuel is scaring me, its intermittent still.

I am wondering if its the main relay, http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p= ... st47324901, I am having around the same problem as this guy but a bit off. I am not having any starting problems though. I did have to resolder my main relay once before..and one time I did have a starting issue but it was one time.

Btw thanks for helping me, and going through 5 pages or back and forth trial and error.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by bk7794 »

So today I tested the o2 sensor and got a reading of 0 volts when the rpms were at 4k. It was supposed to be around 0.6. I bought one just to try, I figured it wouldn't hurt.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by bk7794 »

So I bought a new oxygen sensor...I really would like to install it. But the old one does not come off, I knew it would be a hell of a job to get it off but the location is really bad. It is halfway down and at an angle. So all my tools are too short to really get a good bite on it with my hand.

I may take it to an exhaust shop...the problem is that I don't even think this is the problem. I am just doing it because it hasn't gotten changed in over 150k.

I might replace the plug wires with genuine ones...maybe.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... 890&page=2 look at this!
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by AHTOXA »

I think this is the longest forum conversation I've seen between mainly two people in regards to an issue.

Not that it's bad but you guys might as well call each other. :lol:
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

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AHTOXA wrote:I think this is the longest forum conversation I've seen between mainly two people in regards to an issue.

Not that it's bad but you guys might as well call each other. :lol:
haha I Was thinking that. I really couldn't give him enough thanks for all that he has done for me. Especially putting up with all my stupid posts haha.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by theholycow »

:lol: I enjoy it more this way, I'm better at it this way (I can take my time building posts and I can refer back to what's already been discussed), and of course this puts it up for everyone to read -- meaning they can correct me when I screw up and read it when they have similar problems. Frankly I'm amazed that I haven't been corrected, I can't have been right in every post and this forum has people much more expert than myself.

I sometimes save copies of threads like this in case the forum ever goes down and I want to re-learn something I remember having figured out but no longer know. My project thread is an extreme example...gotta keep a copy of that one, it's the only record I have of a lot of stuff about my car.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by bk7794 »

theholycow wrote::lol: I enjoy it more this way, I'm better at it this way (I can take my time building posts and I can refer back to what's already been discussed), and of course this puts it up for everyone to read -- meaning they can correct me when I screw up and read it when they have similar problems. Frankly I'm amazed that I haven't been corrected, I can't have been right in every post and this forum has people much more expert than myself.

I sometimes save copies of threads like this in case the forum ever goes down and I want to re-learn something I remember having figured out but no longer know. My project thread is an extreme example...gotta keep a copy of that one, it's the only record I have of a lot of stuff about my car.
helps to unite!

I did learn a lot I must say.

I think I might have found the problem. Might, I can not say for certain.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by bk7794 »

I think I fixed it, temporarily, it will just happen again. But I think it was the oil leaking into the number 3 cylinder. New valve cover and spark plug tube gaskets are needed. WOO!

Felt really smooth, there were some minor jerks and such but I think its because of the spark plug wire aswell.

I just took the plug out and cleaned it very good, I might actually just replace all 4 spark plugs. Might aswell just incase it gunked anything else up. I didn't buy those iridium plugs, I don't think its worth it. These also are not the cheapest, these are intermediate I guess.
Here they are.
Image
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by theholycow »

Sounds plausible, and I don't think I'd ever have thought of it randomly. I vaguely remember talking about examining the spark plugs, did you not do that before?

Once you repair the oil leaks, simply cleaning the existing spark plugs will be fine.

If you replace them, do NOT get something gimmicky like that. Gimmick spark plugs range from "harmless but no better than non-gimmick" to "gonna destroy your cylinder when one of those narrow electrode pieces breaks off".
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by bk7794 »

theholycow wrote:Sounds plausible, and I don't think I'd ever have thought of it randomly. I vaguely remember talking about examining the spark plugs, did you not do that before?

Once you repair the oil leaks, simply cleaning the existing spark plugs will be fine.

If you replace them, do NOT get something gimmicky like that. Gimmick spark plugs range from "harmless but no better than non-gimmick" to "gonna destroy your cylinder when one of those narrow electrode pieces breaks off".
I have been having good lucks with those Vpowers that I already installed on there.

Yeah I took them off to inspect them but I never cleaned the threads. Today when cleaning the plug I believe was the culprit I actually used this electrical connection cleaner. Works great!

I took it for a long ride today and it ran pretty good. Get a few jerks here and there but I think its another cylinder that has this problem. The gasket was previously replaced by a mechanic and he did a TERRIBLE job.

Going to try and return the o2 sensor I bought...shouldn't have done that and am going to buy a genuine valve cover gasket. I just get worried unscrewing and screwing the plugs back in because I am afraid of the threads becoming worn or something stupid that would happen.

I have this socket that does a great job. Its a magnetic deep well and is designed specifically for this purpose.

Now what about the wires. I do not know what to do about those. They are like 30 bucks so I think I am going to just replace them and then keep the other ones I have just incase I need them. Never know.

I do appreciate you for being kind on these posts, I posted in another forum and the guy was nice but I can see he became annoyed.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by theholycow »

After you clean the plugs with the electrical cleaner, consider a light sanding/filing of the electrodes to remove any stubborn deposits. Don't remove much material, just make it shiny metal again. (Or, if you have a compressor spend a few bucks at Harbor Freight for a spark plug sandblaster...seems like fun. I ought to get one.) After you do that, check the gap to make sure you didn't mess it up.

Threads: Be careful and patient. Clean around them before removing them when possible. Clean the threads when possible. Thread them most of the way in by hand (using the socket and extension if necessary, just turning the extension by hand), then just tighten them with the ratchet (or preferably torque wrench). If you do that, there should be no worry about the threads. Threads don't get worn, they get damaged from cross-threading, overtorquing, or from solid contamination.

If there is grit in the threads, I have no idea how to safely remove it from the head's threads. I hope somebody else has advice for that. Ok, just got one idea...fill the cylinder with an oil-soaked very clean rag and then use a spray cleaner (and maybe a bore brush (cheap and easy to find in the firearm aisle at Walmart, though a steel one is better)), the rag should catch all the grit. Get the piston to TDC with the valves closed if possible beforehand. I can't remember where I learned that trick but I googled it and it's recommended for people brave enough to drill and heli-coil their heads without removing them from the engine.

If the wires soaked in oil from the spark plug tube filling up then you definitely ought to replace them. If not, although I'm more a fan of re-use than unnecessary replacement, it still may be a good idea in this case. Definitely keep the old ones as spares, you never knew when you'll break one pulling it off and not have the dough to buy a whole set.

Don't forget anti-seize in the threads and dielectric grease in the wire boot. Just buy a full-size can of each, don't bother with the tubes and single-serving packets unless you lack a good place to store the bulk container.

The guy in the other forum shouldn't be answering this kind of question if it annoys him. For me, doing this is educational and satisfying. I learn by posting as much as I learn by asking. When my patience (or knowledge) runs out I STFU.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by bk7794 »

I am going to try and reply this on my DROID. Let's see how well it works.

So I do use the extension. Though I should attach another extension just to prevent hand fatigue. I know lame but it becomes tiresome. Also in the beginning when it feels rough I stop take them off and re do it. Sometimes the threads are gritty but if I play around with the plug usually they just go away. the hole is just so deep , I also spray some electrical cleaner down in the hole. Just to clean any oil residue. I am going to try all 4 plugs and clean them.

I don't think I am going to mess too much with the electrodes. I think they actually look pretty good.

I heard to not bother to use antiseize on these plugs because the plugs are already covered with some type of coating or something. I don't have too much of an issue of taking them off.

Also for torquing them down I do it until about hand tight and about a quarter turn with the ratchet.

I hope this is the cause of problems. I think it is because I feel like I have so much more power now.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by theholycow »

bk7794 wrote:the hole is just so deep , I also spray some electrical cleaner down in the hole. Just to clean any oil residue.
Most people use carburetor cleaner spray for that, but electrical cleaner ought to be fine...but you're doing that with the plug still in, or the plug out? I'd be scared that with the plug out, it would wash grit into the cylinder and you'd end up with a scraped cylinder.
I am going to try all 4 plugs and clean them.

I don't think I am going to mess too much with the electrodes. I think they actually look pretty good.
:shock: It was only the threads that needed cleaning? I don't think I've ever heard of that, where the plug isn't getting a good enough ground...when I think of cleaning spark plugs I think of cleaning the electrodes.
Also for torquing them down I do it until about hand tight and about a quarter turn with the ratchet.

Sounds about right to me, assuming the threads are clean enough for hand-tight to seat them.
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Re: Need help solving an intermittent miss

Post by bk7794 »

theholycow wrote:
bk7794 wrote:the hole is just so deep , I also spray some electrical cleaner down in the hole. Just to clean any oil residue.
Most people use carburetor cleaner spray for that, but electrical cleaner ought to be fine...but you're doing that with the plug still in, or the plug out? I'd be scared that with the plug out, it would wash grit into the cylinder and you'd end up with a scraped cylinder.
I am going to try all 4 plugs and clean them.

I don't think I am going to mess too much with the electrodes. I think they actually look pretty good.
:shock: It was only the threads that needed cleaning? I don't think I've ever heard of that, where the plug isn't getting a good enough ground...when I think of cleaning spark plugs I think of cleaning the electrodes.
Also for torquing them down I do it until about hand tight and about a quarter turn with the ratchet.

Sounds about right to me, assuming the threads are clean enough for hand-tight to seat them.
Generally with the plug out, its just the oil I am cleaning. Generally there was no grit.

With the leaking tube seals when I pulled the plug out it got oil everywhere. And then I thought it made no difference so I put them back with oil everywhere. I cleaned the top connector to make sure the plug connector was not getting effected by the oil.

But the oil would leak in and just coat the plug boot anyways. So I guess oil destroys rubber.
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