Preventing brake fittings from seizing

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theholycow
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Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by theholycow »

Seized, corroded fasteners are the bane of my existence. This is doubly true of flare nuts, which seize both to the threaded female hole as well as seizing to their own pipe.

I'm about to replace much of the brake system in my Buick. I was thinking I'd like to proactively do something to prevent seizing. If I was dealing with fuel or oil lines I'd use anti-seize compound. With the sensitivity of brake fluid to contaminants, I'm not sure I want to do that. While I can carefully avoid any contamination during the initial installation, in the future when I disconnect and reconnect them I may be unable to clean the anti-seize from the female threads. Anti-seize is messy stuff.

I've got flare nuts and bleeder fittings to worry about.

I'm thinking I might use yellow chemical-resistant teflon thread tape on the threads and anti-seize on the inside diameter pipe interface (but not all the way up to the flare). Once installed, I'll seal it all in with a heavy coat of rubberized undercoating, bedliner, plasti-dip (the old-school dip, brushed on), or something like that.

Any thoughts on that plan?
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by Shadow »

I've seen guys use teflon tape and I've seen guys use anti-seize. Personally, I use neither mainly because of the reasons you mentioned--the possibility of contamination. I guess if you're really careful there shouldn't be much concern, but I'd be wary of a small piece of tape or a small smear of anti-seize getting in there.

Have you considered buying stainless steel lines? It may cost more initially, but if you buy good stainless steel lines, they should last just about forever and they should do a great job at resisting corrosion. I believe the best for corrosion resistance is 304 grade stainless, but some of them will have brass fittings on them, which will probably defeat your purpose.
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by theholycow »

That does sound like a good idea. I bought a double-flaring kit so it's not 100% necessary to buy pre-fabricated flared lines, although stainless is probably a little more difficult to flare than regular steel. Any suggestions where I should start looking for stainless line and flare nuts? Depending on just how much more expensive it is, I could probably find room in the dwindling budget, and I'd really like to do this the best way I can. My usual stores don't show any on their websites.
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by Shadow »

Wait...are you replacing all of your brake lines from end to end? And your bending it and flaring it yourself? I thought you were talking about replacing the flexible lines at each wheel. If you're replacing everything, it's probably going to be expensive to do stainless all the way.
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by theholycow »

Sorry, I forgot to mention that. I have one steel pipe section at the rear axle that I think is leaking. I plan to replace two 30 inch steel sections there and all the hoses (one rear, two front). I already have the new hoses. I won't be replacing the rest of the steel lines unless I find leaks, damage, or rot.

Also, to further clarify: In the rear there is a single hose. It goes from the frame-mounted line to the solid/live axle, where it has a junction block. From there it has 3/16" steel tube that goes directly to the wheel cylinders. That is the part I'm replacing.

I also have new calipers and wheel cylinders, and I totally forgot that the hoses I already bought will need the same anti-corrosion attention (and are not stainless)...and I'm still considering measures to protect the bleeders too.
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by Shadow »

Sounds like you have quite the project ahead of you. Are you planning on using single or double flare? It's just my opinion, but I'd definitely go double flare, even with SS.

BTW, my local auto parts stores carry (or can quickly get) a variety of SS lines/parts for the guys who like to build their own.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the bleeders. Sometimes they get clogged, but rarely have I seen them where they can't be removed from the caliper. Once you get them out, you can easily clean them up on wheel and/or unclog them and they should be good as new. I know some guys that actually use brake fluid as a lubricant when installing them. I have no idea if that actually helps or not though...
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by theholycow »

Definitely double flare. All research indicates that single flare is not strong enough for the pressure used in brake systems, and may even be illegal (for brake systems only). Even reading around on internet forums doesn't turn up anyone admitting to using single flare, and there's all kinds of idiots admitting to doing all kinds of dumb things.

Last year, my GMC needed all new lines. Instead of doing it myself I sent it in to the professionals. After replacing the lines they had to drill out the bleeders and tap the calipers for new ones, thanks to corrosion. My truck was pretty extreme and I'll never let anything get like that again, but I intend to act paranoid about it while doing these projects anyway, especially on the Buick which is not yet a lost cause.

Drat, I just thought of something. Teflon tape may not survive the heat in the calipers. I know anti-seize will but on the bleeders I suspect contamination is even more likely than on the flare nuts. Maybe I just need to go at them with a wrench once a year, turn them just enough to guarantee they're not seized, and tighten them up again. That'll probably still mean having to bleed it again. I hate bleeding brakes. :(
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by Shadow »

I agree with always using double-flare for brake lines, but there are people who don't like to double-flare SS because it can be more likely to crack when you bend it. That's why I was asking.

The only reason a bleeder would ever have to be removed from a caliper is if the bleeder is clogged and it has to be removed to be cleaned or replaced. I don't know if you ever replace your brake fluid, but it's definitely a good thing to do, even though most people never even think about it. Since brake fluid is hygroscopic (it absorbs water/moisture), it can cause corrosion in the braking system. Because of that, most manufacturers recommend brake fluid replacement every two years. If you do replace your brake fluid at regular intervals, your bleeders should stay in good shape and never clog up at all, which also means they should never have to be removed from the caliper. BTW, for anyone who has never replaced brake fluid, it's really very easy. You simply siphon the majority of the old fluid from the master cylinder, then replace it with fresh fluid. Then you open each bleeder one at a time and pump the old fluid out until you see clean fluid come out of the bleeder. You should never introduce any air into the system (make sure that the master cylinder doesn't run dry by topping it off throughout the process) by doing this, so it's not really a bleeding procedure, although it is a similar process.

BTW, if you're really paranoid about it, I don't think you'll have to bleed your brakes if you just put a wrench on your bleeder and turn it a bit to make sure it's not seized up. As long as no air is getting in, there should be no need to bleed. You can always have a second person put a little pressure on the brake pedal while you're cracking the bleeders. That way if you do "open" the system to the atmosphere, fluid will be forced out instead of air getting in.
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by theholycow »

Yeah, I wouldn't expect to need to remove bleeders completely, just that if they're seized you can't even open them enough to use them.

I have been thinking I ought to replace my fluid as recommended. The GMC got all new fluid with its new lines (and new calipers) last year, obviously, and obviously I would plan to do all new fluid in the Buick during this project, so now is a good time to start that schedule.

Great idea about having someone step on the brake pedal while I crack the bleeders and fittings a few degrees. That will not only prevent air getting in, it will also let me know if I went too far. I'll wear goggles while I do it, since it could spray unexpectedly. However, maybe it won't be necessary if I get on a 2-year fluid replacement schedule anyway.
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Re: Preventing brake fittings from seizing

Post by Shadow »

Yeah, I probably should have mentioned wearing safety goggles, just in case. Better safe than sorry!
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