Question about my actual technique

[jpmonette]

Hey all,

I'm new to the Manual Transmission world. I just got my first car there's like 3 days, a Honda Sedan Civic 2008, manual. I started driving in manual there's 3 days also.

First of all, I'm not sure about something with the RPM meter: if I go before the red bar (like at 6x1000RPM), can I broke my engine? In the manual, they recommend to shift at about 3RPM, but is it bad for the engine if I go higher, or it's only more economic to shift at 3PM?

Secondly, I was on the highway tonight at 80km/h (dont know how much in mph) at my fifth gear and I decided to downshift at my fourth gear, but when I released the clotch, my engine did an horrible noise and slowed down a lot. Is that because I didn't applied enough gas? Because normaly, I can go at 85km/h at 5RPM in my fourth gear... I hope I didn't damaged my engine...

Last question: When I'm getting closer to a stop sign or a redlight, I anticipate at like 30meters before to stop, so I press the clotch (to be like in a neutral without putting my transmission in neutral) and I slowly break until I reach my stop spot. When I'm still, I put back my transmission in the first gear. Is that the right way? I do the same thing when I turn before entering the highway: I hold the clotch down to the ground while turning, to be sure I won't shut my engine down... I guess it's not right, but I'm just not sure about the right technique and the person that teached me how to drive manual wasn't so sure. so I just want to confirm those points..

Thanks a lot, and thanks for the good tutorials =D

[blauenlanze]

For the record, it is a clutch not a clotch. Hope that was just a typo. In a Civic yes you can wind your engine up to 6K with no problem, but if you aren't needing the extra acceleration all it does is waste gas. When you downshifted 5->4 on the highway it was probably because as you were shifting, the RPM dropped to maybe 1000, then when you released the clutch, it had to jump back to ~3000. So to avoid that, blip the gas a bit as you shift and before you let go of the clutch. Hope that helps. You can read the tutorial on rev-matched downshifts, that should tell you the different ways (single vs. double clutch).

Lastly there is no reason to clutch in or shift to neutral that early. When you brake, brake in gear, then maybe two-thirds of the way there, when your engine is at 1000rpm or so, then clutch in shift to neutral and get ready to go into first. If you're doing a turn, just keep it in gear and don't brake excessively. Going onto the highway just hold a bit of throttle to keep speed, until the road straightens, then accelerate.

[hockeystyx16]

lol a civic revs way higher than 6k. those engines just start waking up at 6k

[blauenlanze]

He probably has a normal Civic, not an Si. I think the 2008 redline is 6800rpm, earlier generations were 6300rpm.

[hockeystyx16]

wtf redline at vtec.

[StickIt]

Not to threadjack but this might help the OP too. I am trying to get single clutch downshifting with rev-matching down and I have a question about when to blip the throttle - before I move the shifter or as I am moving the shifter? I know in some threads around here it says while moving the shifter to the lower gear blip the throttle but sometimes when I am downshifting from like 4th to 2nd if I don't wait to blip the throttle before moving the shifter it seems like the shifter doesn't go into the gate nicely (don't want to kill synchros). This might be because I'm not at the right speed for 2nd or something but I thought I'd ask.

[jomotopia]

welcome to the site.

you will be fine running your engine up to anywhere below the redline as long as you keep the oil changed and other proper maintenance. though if it is a brand new car you should follow the manual's break in procedure which will probably say to stay under 4k or so until 1000 miles or something. that 3k rpm shift point is for economy.

for your downshift, sounds like you didn't rev it up enough on the rev match (if you did rev match at all). you didn't really hurt anything other than a little extra clutch wear.

for stopping, if you're definitely going to stop, just brake in whatever gear you are in until the revs get down to around 1k-1.5k and then shift to neutral and finish braking. there's no need to downshift and there's no need to hold the clutch in. while you're waiting to move off there's no need to have it in 1st and hold the clutch down either, unless you're going to be going right away, or will have to jump into a gap on short notice. for turns, you should downshift to the proper gear for the turn before entering the turn. basically you should try to keep the car in gear as much as you can.

@StickIt - i find it quickest and easiest to blip as you're moving the shifter from one gear to the other. basically it's all one motion.

[jpmonette]

In a Civic yes you can wind your engine up to 6K with no problem, but if you aren't needing the extra acceleration all it does is waste gas.

My Civic isn't a Si, it's a Honda Civic Sedan 2008 => http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/
Almost the same info, it's only the new look... Can't find the 2008 back on the Website.

When you downshifted 5->4 on the highway it was probably because as you were shifting, the RPM dropped to maybe 1000, then when you released the clutch, it had to jump back to ~3000. So to avoid that, blip the gas a bit as you shift and before you let go of the clutch. Hope that helps. You can read the tutorial on rev-matched downshifts, that should tell you the different ways (single vs. double clutch).

Actually, I'm pretty sure I didn't rev-matched because I didn't know I need to do that... I rarely downshift...

Lastly there is no reason to clutch in or shift to neutral that early. When you brake, brake in gear, then maybe two-thirds of the way there, when your engine is at 1000rpm or so, then clutch in shift to neutral and get ready to go into first. If you're doing a turn, just keep it in gear and don't brake excessively. Going onto the highway just hold a bit of throttle to keep speed, until the road straightens, then accelerate.

The reason why I keep my car clutch in when I turn is to prevent my engine from stalling if I go to low if I need to brake for some reason (a slow person in front of me)... This way, I check at the end of the turn my speed and get back in gear. Otherwise, I just downshift and accelerate at the end... I guess I'll need to practice the right thing =D

Thanks a lot for all the answers ! If you have any more comments, feel free to post them so I can improve my technique =D

[blauenlanze]

Ah well, your normal Civic redline is at 6800 I think, for some reason I am having a hard time finding the actual redline. The Si redline is 8000. And as Jomo said, just keep it under 4000 when your car is still new and in the break-in period.

A lot of Honda's newer offerings (non-Si / non-Type R) don't have a single, sudden, VTEC kick in, but rather a more gradual one. And if the redline is something like 6500, VTEC will come in before that.

[tehfade]

You aren't going to hurt anything by revving your engine high. Cruising RPM should obviously be as low as possible just for economy, but if you need acceleration, you can spin it right to the redline without worry.

When you downshift, you need to rev-match. If you don't, the car will suddenly slow down as it tries to force the engine's RPM up. This is abusive, so practice rev-matched downshifts until you get it.

As to stopping, it's fine to put the clutch in until you're stopped and then shift to first. The "best" way to do it is to downshift all the way down to first as you slow, but most people don't bother and you don't have to either if you don't want to. Turning is another story,. In order to resume driving after the turn, you have to get the clutch back out again, and to do THAT, you need to shift into the appropriate gear and rev-match again. It's easier and quicker to downshift before the turn so that you have power the instant you need it after coming out of the turn.

[watkins]

The "best" way to do it is to downshift all the way down to first as you slow

No its not. The best is to shift into neutral. Near instant access to any gear you might end up needing and no undue wear on any parts. Since in a modern car the brakes are stronger than engine braking, theres no reason to brake in gear.

[SonyAD]

Of course there is. Picking right up and accelerating again.

[jomotopia]

The "best" way to do it is to downshift all the way down to first as you slow

why is it the "best"? the only point would be so you're always in the right gear in case you need to go again, and i will downshift sequentially (only down to 2nd though) if i think i will likely be going again. but if you're definitely going to stop there's no point, all it does is waste gas and clutch (though both nominal). and even if you think you will be moving again, it only takes half a second to grab the right gear if you know your car.

[tehfade]

^^You just said why it's the best. You're always in gear, so if you need to accelerate, you can. It's good at stop signs, for example, because you're only stopped for a few seconds.

I know it's not really important, and I usually don't do it myself unless I'm feeling like having some fun practicing. But it technically is the best way.

[jomotopia]

^^You just said why it's the best. You're always in gear, so if you need to accelerate, you can. It's good at stop signs, for example, because you're only stopped for a few seconds.

I know it's not really important, and I usually don't do it myself unless I'm feeling like having some fun practicing. But it technically is the best way.

it's useless at stop signs. you have to stop. you will need 1st gear to move off. why would you shift through 4th, 3rd, and 2nd? it can be useful if you might not be stopping but you imply that it is best under all slowing down situations, including when definitely coming to a complete stop. "best" is a relative term anyway i guess. the hand brake is technically the "best" way to launch on a hill.