Some Concerns...Need help

[Solitaire]

Hello everyone...first off awesome site here. I am new to driving standard and the FAQs and discussions were very helpful in giving me an idea of what I was doing. I've been driving stick for about 2 weeks now (2009 Lancer GTS in case anyone is curious) and have a question that I haven't really seen asked around here (I think).

I am having a problem with smoothly moving the shifter from one gear to the next. Just to clarify, I don't mean the car jerks during shifting (I had that problem as well but fixed it via the tips on this site lol). I mean the actual moving of the gear stick from one gear to the next, is not a smooth straightforward move. At first I thought this was just how the gear was supposed to be, but there are occasions (i'd say maybe 25% of the time) that I am able to move the shifter from one gear to the next in a very straightforward and fluid manner where the shifter basically just slips out of one gear and into the next.

The rest of the time, I feel a bit of resistance like it's getting caught on something, or maybe even a bit of grinding? I am ensuring that I have the clutch fully depressed (the clutch is touching the floor) but this doesn't change the situation. I sometimes think that I'm not properly moving the gear along the "grooves", but I'm hoping maybe someone here can help me fix this problem?

My second issue is slightly more worrying. I'm not sure but I think I released the clutch without fully engaging the gear (the gear was about half way into second I think) and when I accelerated I definitely heard some grinding. Thankfully I wasn't going very fast at all, and I quickly fixed the issue. I am however worried about any permanent damage that I might have caused (possibly to the synchros or the gear teeth) and was wondering if this was something I should maybe go have checked out?

Thank you in advance for you help!

[FDSpirit]

Welcome to the site! The resistance you may be feeling might be just the natural notchiness of the shifter. My car has its moments where it just slides into gear, but for the most part, I can "feel" the shifter going into the gate for the next gear. If it is just having trouble getting into gear, then that actually be an issue. The grinding is something you really wanna avoid. A few times it isn't gonna kill the car. Make sure you floor the clutch and also make sure the shifter is in the next gear fully before you release the clutch. The others will chime in and help out as well .

[AHTOXA]

Not sure what the lancer shifter feel like. I know mine is very notchy on the goat.

[six]

Welcome to the site. The grinding is not something you should worry about, especially since you corrected it right away. The transmission is built to withstand some grinding. Anyone who drives a manual will experience some grinding moments at one point or another, no matter how experienced or skilled they are. It's inevitable.

[theholycow]

The way you describe the resistance, it sounds like the normal waiting you have to do for the synchronizer. Have you observed any correlation with "the shifter basically just slips out of one gear and into the next" and your RPM? It should do that when you're perfectly rev-matched for your next gear, and when you're not it should pause and resist like you described.

Grinding is unmistakable, it is loud enough to hear and you can feel it shaking the shifter or vibrating it hard. You could get grinding if you push too hard past the synchronizer before it's ready.

The second issue, where you accidentally engaged the clutch with the gear not fully engaged, is fine. Try to avoid it but don't worry if it happens. Also if you forget to use the clutch entirely, or if it just randomly grinds one day, or anything like that...if this stuff isn't happening every day then you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

[Solitaire]

Wow thanks for the fast responses as well as the welcome!

I'm glad the car is built to withstand my noobness (aka grinding the gears). I was really worried, and also kinda paranoid because I sometimes felt the movement from 1st to 2nd was "weird" as the gear kinda popped outa first and I thought it was because of the grinding.

I guess the biggest reason why I was curious about the gear notching, is because I'm still trying to find ways to shift faster especially in the earlier gears, and the notching kinda slows me down (because I don't want to try and force a gear). I'm hoping it's something I'll get better at over time.

Thanks again all

[Solitaire]

The way you describe the resistance, it sounds like the normal waiting you have to do for the synchronizer. Have you observed any correlation with "the shifter basically just slips out of one gear and into the next" and your RPM? It should do that when you're perfectly rev-matched for your next gear, and when you're not it should pause and resist like you described.

Grinding is unmistakable, it is loud enough to hear and you can feel it shaking the shifter or vibrating it hard. You could get grinding if you push too hard past the synchronizer before it's ready.

The second issue, where you accidentally engaged the clutch with the gear not fully engaged, is fine. Try to avoid it but don't worry if it happens. Also if you forget to use the clutch entirely, or if it just randomly grinds one day, or anything like that...if this stuff isn't happening every day then you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Hi Holy...yes I have noticed a bit of a co-relation between my RPMs and the smoothness in shifting. I'm still slightly confused though because sometimes it's smoother if I shift earlier, while at other times it seems to work better if I rev higher before shifting. Now I realize the reving is probably a red herring, as from what i've read here it's a matter of catching the RPM at a certain point in order to properly match the shifts. I'm still working to figure out the RPM at which I need to switch in each gear.

[theholycow]

Here's a surefire way to find out about your RPM: Know your RPM just before you get into gear, and then immediately after you engage the clutch. The RPM after is what you should have been at.

To avoid waiting for your synchros, you'll not only have to rev-match, but you'll have to double-clutch. Don't bother double-clutching your upshifts. It takes even longer than waiting for your synchros to do their job. It can definitely speed up your downshifts after you get a lot of practice.

Another way to shift fast is to shift at low RPM. It requires you to have decent low-RPM torque, and it requires you to enjoy low-RPM driving...if you're not happy until you hear 3000RPM then it's not for you. I upshift when I reach 1500RPM (on level ground with no traffic in front of me), and encounter no wait at all...my shifter thunks right into the next gear faster than a speeding bullet.

[six]

Definitely, as THC said, if you want to complete your 1st-2nd shift quicker, shift to 2nd at a lower RPM. Some people have a natural tendency to run 1st gear up pretty high during normal driving, and it's not necessary at all unless you are drag racing someone. Second gear has more than enough power to get you moving, and the earlier you switch to 2nd, the less you will notice people with slushies beating you off the line

Back when I was driving a manual ( ), I only used 1st gear to get myself moving. After I started moving (say, about 2-3MPH), I immediately switched to 2nd and gassed it. The shift was immediate, and I usually beat everyone else off the line.

[Solitaire]

Heh. That's actually really cool...you guys answered something that had been bugging me since I started driving without me even asking Kinda like solving two problems at once.

Yea especially first gear....I do rev it pretty high (between 2k and 3k) not for the noise, but just because I'm getting frustrated that I'm not taking off a stop light/sign fast enough. I'm sure i take off adequately, but it just annoys me when I see the guy next to me zoom ahead while I'm shifting to second. I never thought that shifting earlier (especially as early as 2-3mph) would be the answer....gotta give that a try!

[Jastreb]

Hey. Welcome to the site. The other guys have replied pretty thoroughly to your questions, but where did you find a 2009 manual Lancer GTS?? When I was looking at different options for a car last fall, I was curious about the car but couldn't find the GTS trim w/ manual around where I live.

You should post some pics in the Members' cars section!

[Solitaire]

I live in Ontario, Canada, and bought the car via a private sale. I must say that most of the ads I saw for the car in this area were manual, so I had quite a number of options.

Will def post pics, although the car is stock and not exactly a rare commodity haha...I love it though. Spending a lot of time on sites now trying to make sure I understand all the nuances of taking good car care Pics potentially coming this weekend after the first proper car wash.

[4onthefloor]

There seems to be a fair number of Ontarians on the boards lately.

[bde]

My friend has 2010 manual GTS and I drove it when he got it. The shifter is VERY smooth. It's probably the smoothest shifter I tried out of mazda, subaru and bmw. Subaru had the notchiest shifts, followed by mazda (i only tried mazdaspeed3).

[fa22raptorf22]

Heh. That's actually really cool...you guys answered something that had been bugging me since I started driving without me even asking Kinda like solving two problems at once.

Yea especially first gear....I do rev it pretty high (between 2k and 3k) not for the noise, but just because I'm getting frustrated that I'm not taking off a stop light/sign fast enough. I'm sure i take off adequately, but it just annoys me when I see the guy next to me zoom ahead while I'm shifting to second. I never thought that shifting earlier (especially as early as 2-3mph) would be the answer....gotta give that a try!

You have gobs of torque, so you could even start in 2nd and not hurt the clutch as you dont have to rev high and won't heat it up.

Another thing, if you don't want to fully engage 1st, is to half clutch first to get moving, then pull into 2nd and let the clutch up. The result after fully engaging 2nd would be that you'd be barely moving, and at about idle rpm.