I just realized I have been living in Hell

[kayubassist]

thank you all for the tips.
yes, when I step on the gas and rpm goes up, that's usually when I burn my clutch.
yesterday I tried holding the clutch at the friction point at the red light and then launching by adding gas right away on uphill, it worked really well.

[scionkid]

Hope you're not waiting at the redlight with the pedal at the friction point. That probably won't wear your clutch, but the wearing adds up over time. Unless you have to slip the clutch, which means the car is moving too slowly for the engine, the pedal should be all the way up or down.

[Rope-Pusher]

(Chorus)Standard Shifters: shiftin' clean as country water
Standard Shifters: revvin' high as mountain dew
Standard Shifters: been Amish since they's babies
Standard Shifters: lay rubber in the womb


Well, there's twenty-nine hunnert and seventy-three members on SS
And they can pick more nits than the number of ants on a drop of molasses
Yeah, there's twenty-nine hunnert and seventy-three posters on SS
And any one that lets out a clutch pedal can drive twice as better than the Mrs.

Yes, I was just thirteen, you might say I was an automotive proverbial knee-high
When I read a couple new posts on the web and they blasted me sky high
And the moderator said every one is a Master shifter on SS
And in North America ain't nobody buys them and I said, "But I synchronizes"
And it was

(Chorus)

Well, there's sixteen thousand eight hundred 'n twenty one Tony’s mothers on SS
All their friends drive Amish, and they ain't uptight if one of the kids DCDS’s
Because it's custom made for any mother's son to be a Master Shifter on SS
And I sure am glad I got a chance to say a word about the members and the mothers on SS

[kayubassist]

well thanks for the song lol.

how about going downhill?

my car tells me when to shift on the trip computer like 1->2 or 3->4 and that's usually when i shift,
but on downhill, even when rpm is going up to 3000, the car does not tell me to.
so I just shift up on my own because i don't wanna rev up to high, and then car jerks pretty hard.
it's very random, sometimes it's all smooth, sometimes all rough.
when i try to stay in low gear to take advantage of engine braking, i feel like the car is too slow for the road, so I up shift, then the car is a bit too fast for the road.

[tankinbeans]

well thanks for the song lol.

how about going downhill?

my car tells me when to shift on the trip computer like 1->2 or 3->4 and that's usually when i shift,
but on downhill, even when rpm is going up to 3000, the car does not tell me to.
so I just shift up on my own because i don't wanna rev up to high, and then car jerks pretty hard.
it's very random, sometimes it's all smooth, sometimes all rough.
when i try to stay in low gear to take advantage of engine braking, i feel like the car is too slow for the road, so I up shift, then the car is a bit too fast for the road.

My advice, admittedly n00b advice - so take it for what it's worth, is to continue shifting when you feel it's necessary downhill. Though I'd leave it in a lower gear than normal to make use of some engine braking. Your car probably isn't telling you to shift up because that light is primarily for fuel efficiency and going downhill, in gear, your wheels are spinning the engine enough to keep the injectors off and you wouldn't be using any gas anyway.

Again, I don't know much, but I've been working on learning. And, as Lavar Burton is wont to say, "you don't have to take my word for it."

EDIT: I just saw your bit about up-shifting and engine braking and I botched my advice. In the end you'll get used to how your car will react when you do certain things and will adjust your shifting accordingly. I usually keep mine in 6th going uphill as well as down hill, as long as it isn't very steep - and the hill isn't a "slow hill" - meaning 40mph or less - my car will soldier up the hill and will be fine.

[theholycow]

^That is good advice. And, as I was writing this post that post came up...and we're both making nerd references.

Use the brakes, Luke!


The brakes in a manual car work every bit as well as they do in an automatic. Low-gear engine braking is optional, just as it is in an automatic.

If your shift indicator light isn't doing its job, shift when you'll get a smooth shift according to past experience. Generally downhill means you might want to shift at lower RPM. Whatever RPM you choose, you may need to give it a little gas during the shift; or if you are giving it some gas, you may need to stop doing so.

When it jerks pretty hard, does it send your head towards the windshield or towards the back seat?

[tankinbeans]

^That is good advice. And, as I was writing this post that post came up...and we're both making nerd references.

Use the brakes, Luke!


The brakes in a manual car work every bit as well as they do in an automatic. Low-gear engine braking is optional, just as it is in an automatic.

If your shift indicator light isn't doing its job, shift when you'll get a smooth shift according to past experience. Generally downhill means you might want to shift at lower RPM. Whatever RPM you choose, you may need to give it a little gas during the shift; or if you are giving it some gas, you may need to stop doing so.

When it jerks pretty hard, does it send your head towards the windshield or towards the back seat?

Not that it has anything to do with the OP's question, your post about Luke - use the brakes , reminds of the shirt where there's a cow looking at a carton of milk saying, "Milk, I am your father."

[kayubassist]

hi!
thanks for the quick responses!

i am not depending 100% on the computer because it does not always yield in smooth shifts.

when the car jerks my head goes forward.

when I shift up when rpm is around 2000~2200 car seems to be smooth (ie, lower than what the car tells me)

I have another question about downshifting.

my neighbour tells me she (yes, i take advices from a female driver haha but she is british and she's been driving manual for all of her driving years) downshifts on the same hill like when in 4th, push in the clutch, shift into 3rd, let out the clutch without giving gas.
I tried that and the car jerked hard.

is it ok if i don't give gas when downshifting? do i just need to rev match?

[tankinbeans]

hi!
thanks for the quick responses!

i am not depending 100% on the computer because it does not always yield in smooth shifts.

when the car jerks my head goes forward.

when I shift up when rpm is around 2000~2200 car seems to be smooth (ie, lower than what the car tells me)

I have another question about downshifting.

my neighbour tells me she (yes, i take advices from a female driver haha but she is british and she's been driving manual for all of her driving years) downshifts on the same hill like when in 4th, push in the clutch, shift into 3rd, let out the clutch without giving gas.
I tried that and the car jerked hard.

is it ok if i don't give gas when downshifting? do i just need to rev match?

I've been working on learning to rev-match downshift with limited success. I'd say just work the clutch more slowly than an upshit.

EDIT: One thing that the cow taught me, or told me to try, that seems to work is to leave your foot planted on the throttle as you complete your downshift. This way, instead of blipping the throttle, your foot stays stationary and the revs will build automatically when you pull the car out of gear. It seems to be easier, and I haven't noticed any untoward responses when I've done this.

Long live steaks on legs.

[theholycow]

when the car jerks my head goes forward.

In that case, one option for smoothing your shift is to give it a little gas. Your engine RPM is dropping too far during the shift. You could also shift more quickly, or at a different RPM.

when I shift up when rpm is around 2000~2200 car seems to be smooth (ie, lower than what the car tells me)

In that case, feel free to shift around 2000~2200. You're in charge, not the computer.

my neighbour tells me she (yes, i take advices from a female driver haha but she is british and she's been driving manual for all of her driving years) downshifts on the same hill like when in 4th, push in the clutch, shift into 3rd, let out the clutch without giving gas.
I tried that and the car jerked hard.

is it ok if i don't give gas when downshifting? do i just need to rev match?

Rev-matching is one option. Smoothing it with the clutch by letting it out slower is another option. Her way uses less fuel. Rev-matching uses less clutch.

Generally if I'm looking for engine braking I do not rev-match. I want to slow the car down and the clutch can do the job, while rev-matching is kinda the opposite of doing that job, especially if you have a heavy flywheel or rev hang. The non-rev-matched downshift not abusive*; it's what the engineers who designed it expect you to do.

*: Unless it's extreme, like going from 1000rpm to redline shifting from 4th to 1st.

[kayubassist]

thanks
you guys have been really helpful. I am starting to like this forum more and more.

downshifting is tricky for a noob i guess.
while concentrating on the road for what is going on around me, you need to do the clutch work, blip the throttle and move the shiter and complete the shift in like what? 1 second?

by the time i 'try' to rev match and complete the shift, the rpm is already back down haha.

i will try shifting a bit faster for going downhill.

i feel sorry for the car for getting a noob driver as an owner

[theholycow]

Downshifting is essentially the same motions as upshifting, except you need to give it more gas to rev-match.

If your rev-match blip is...eh, expiring I guess would be the word...then you can:
- re-blip
- blip later next time
- instead of blipping, use a steady-gas rev-match
- as beans said, never take your foot off the gas to begin with; when this works smoothly it is very graceful IMO

Try any or all of those strategies on for size.

[tankinbeans]

i feel sorry for the car for getting a noob driver as an owner

It might like the abuse. I thought my car hated me when I first started driving it, but it decided not to cooperate with my friend, who's been driving standard for 10 years, so I just go with the flow. In the end, the mistakes you're making now are maybe shaving a few hundred miles off the friction materials. When they are designed to go into the 100k+ range this isn't that much. Breathe deep and say, "muusframa". You'll feel better.

[kayubassist]

Yea-
I'm worrying and losing sleep over something that is nothing in the long term.

one day I hope I will be giving advices to noobs here on forum after some time lol

again, thanks for all your advices.
Time to Drive now!

[scionkid]

downshifting is tricky for a noob i guess.
while concentrating on the road for what is going on around me, you need to do the clutch work, blip the throttle and move the shiter and complete the shift in like what? 1 second?

Generally, launching is all about clutch technique; rev matching is about throttle technique. When shifting, the clutch is either in or out. The shifter is going from gear to gear. Both of those require very little attention.

Put majority of your mental effort on steering the car and, only if it is safe to do so, work on your rev. If you can't get it right, you can always drive around with your clutch down until you're ready to match rev. Also, 1 second seems short, but it is plenty of time to get to the right rev.