Take Off Without Killing Car

[tankinbeans]

You can always use the handbrake...

This isn't considered cheating for noobs? The part that worries me most is if I ever get into a car without the handbrake I don't want to rely on it too much.

[kayubassist]

I practiced at night when no cars were around.
Also, I do about 5 to 6 hill starts on relatively steep hills daily.
I started by holding the clutch at FP when stopped, and then move right foot to gas and step on it.
At first, I felt like I was frying my clutch. but after about a month, my muscle memory took over and I got to the point where I just launch the car as if I were doing it on flat grounds. car rolls back about 5 inches (rough guess) if i take too much time, but i kinda enjoy it.
I think I am pretty comfortable starting on any hills, at least in my area. (well I haven't been to San Francisco...)
I just hold the clutch at FP a little longer on hills to smooth out any bogging.
However I get occaisional clunking when shifting from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd on uphill.

[Shadow]

You can always use the handbrake...

This isn't considered cheating for noobs? The part that worries me most is if I ever get into a car without the handbrake I don't want to rely on it too much.

Nah....gotta do whatever works for ya. Noobs probably need to rely on the handbrake more often anyway.

BTW, I've never seen a manual trans car that didn't have a handbrake or some sort of anti-rollback feature that uses the brakes. My Audi is the first car that I've ever owned with an electronic parking brake. It's pretty cool because I can hit a button and the brakes will come on and stay on until I depress and begin to release the clutch pedal. So it's a very effective anti-rollback feature and it's very easy to use.

[kayubassist]

BTW, I've never seen a manual trans car that didn't have a handbrake or some sort of anti-rollback feature that uses the brakes. My Audi is the first car that I've ever owned with an electronic parking brake. It's pretty cool because I can hit a button and the brakes will come on and stay on until I depress and begin to release the clutch pedal. So it's a very effective anti-rollback feature and it's very easy to use.

yes, I think anti-rollback (hill-stop) feature is very useful for noobs like me.
at least it gives me time to move my right foot from brake to gas.

[tankinbeans]

You can always use the handbrake...

This isn't considered cheating for noobs? The part that worries me most is if I ever get into a car without the handbrake I don't want to rely on it too much.

Nah....gotta do whatever works for ya. Noobs probably need to rely on the handbrake more often anyway.

BTW, I've never seen a manual trans car that didn't have a handbrake or some sort of anti-rollback feature that uses the brakes. My Audi is the first car that I've ever owned with an electronic parking brake. It's pretty cool because I can hit a button and the brakes will come on and stay on until I depress and begin to release the clutch pedal. So it's a very effective anti-rollback feature and it's very easy to use.

My friend's Ranger has the foot actuated parking brake with a hand release. It was kind of scary. Like I said, normal hills don't bother me anymore (a little rolling, but nothing serious), but steep hills do. I've never used the handbrake method. I suppose I could go out again and try to find exactly where the FP is. It's been awhile and I usually end up finding it, but I'm on level ground and can start from a dead stop a little more slowly than if I were on a hill. My brother's Corolla also has a non-functioning handbrake, that you can pull all the way up and it won't hold shiite. My friend, with the Jetta below, and I replaced his drums and shoes, but couldn't get the handbrake adjust properly. I wish I could have done that much, but we were already high on brake cleaner.

I wish my car had an anti-rollback feature, but I would have had to upgrade to an Optima (which I couldn't afford). I drove my other friend's Jetta, with hill assist, and I count 4 pizzas before it finally let go and started rolling. It was pretty cool.

[scionkid]

You can always use the handbrake...

This isn't considered cheating for noobs? The part that worries me most is if I ever get into a car without the handbrake I don't want to rely on it too much.

Hand brake isn't cheating. It is considered proper hill start protocol in much of Europe.

[tankinbeans]

You can always use the handbrake...

This isn't considered cheating for noobs? The part that worries me most is if I ever get into a car without the handbrake I don't want to rely on it too much.

Hand brake isn't cheating. It is considered proper hill start protocol in much of Europe.

I did not realize that. It's good to know though, since I don't want to look like a tard in front of those who don't need helpers.

[Shadow]

You can always use the handbrake...

This isn't considered cheating for noobs? The part that worries me most is if I ever get into a car without the handbrake I don't want to rely on it too much.

Hand brake isn't cheating. It is considered proper hill start protocol in much of Europe.

Really? So what's the deal with that? Europeans generally drive manuals much more than Americans, so they should be capable of starting on hills without aids....right?

[scionkid]

So what's the deal with that? Europeans generally drive manuals much more than Americans, so they should be capable of starting on hills without aids....right?

Not really. Automatic is American as manual is to European. For europe, driving, to some, is a necessity and manual is the norm. They may all drive it, but it is just a matter of going from point to point. Having everyone on the same page on the use of handbrake for a hill start lowers their accident rates.

For those of us who are curious/enthused about manual, much of the SS.com forum, we talk about advance skills such as double clutching, rev matching, heel and toe (around a corner and on a hill start), 2 feet hill starts. These are not necessary skills for regular driving and yet we talk about them and practice them.

[Rope-Pusher]

^ and that's how the Brits lost the war!

[theholycow]

Hand brake isn't cheating. It is considered proper hill start protocol in much of Europe.

I'm not so sure it's really that common there. In Germany it is unheard of...one of my best friends moved to Germany and doesn't know anybody who does it.

It's absolutely fine if you want to do it but I don't see much difference. Either way the clutch has to overlap the brake whether it's the service brake or the parking brake.

Edit: Some thoughts on this... Don't we have a couple Finns here, one who is currently in Norway? We should ask them. Don't we have a lot of people who watch Top Gear? Do you guys ever notice them using the parking brake? I have contact with a Russian on another forum, and a Russian at work...I might try to ask them.

Edit 2: I should ask my father in law. He goes to Portugal twice a year.

[Shadow]

Having everyone on the same page on the use of handbrake for a hill start lowers their accident rates.

Accidents? People don't roll back enough to hit the car behind them when they're on a hill....because people generally don't pull up close enough to the car in front of them for that to even be a real concern. From an inexperienced driver's perspective, it may seem like there's a danger of rolling back into the car behind you, but in reality the car would usually have to roll back a fairly long way before that's even possible.

[Shadow]

I'm not so sure it's really that common there. In Germany it is unheard of...one of my best friends moved to Germany and doesn't know anybody who does it.

I have lots of relatives on my father's side of the family in Germany (dad is German and mom is Italian) and I agree that handbrakes aren't generally used on hills there. I've spent plenty of time with my cousins driving on German roads and I've never seen any of them do it once. I'll have to ask my Italian relatives because I'm not too sure if they do it there.

I have contact with a Russian on another forum, and a Russian at work...I might try to ask them.

Russia isn't in Europe...it's in Asia. It still might be interesting to know though.

Edit 2: I should ask my father in law. He goes to Portugal twice a year.

There ya go....back in Europe!

[theholycow]

So I got an answer from the Russian on the other forum:

I don`t know such people who use the handbrake for not rolling back)
I signed up at driver's school and in december I will start. categories B & C and mb I will use the handbrake in this way looool
mb it can depends on hill and weather ( ICE AND BEARS EVERYWHERE )

I have Q - How much is driver's school (B category) cost and duration of lessons?
In the north 833$ , 2 months

His age is listed as 21, so I guess licensing has different age requirements or maybe it's easier/less expensive at 21.

[tankinbeans]

Thanks for all the replies with regards to the handbrake. I know it gets discussed here farely frequently. Regarsing rolling back, how far would you say a car really would roll given average reaction times on steeper hills? Any physics people here who can take a guess? Since it will largely depend on weight, let's use one of the largest cars that still come with a manual, without a helper (hill assist or anti-rollback). Maybe some sort of an SUV.

Regarding Top Gear, I watch it - the UK version, not the garbage on the History channel with the annoying larger dude, the annoying New Englander, and the skinny guy - ALL the time (anytime I can catch it) and I recall Captain Slow making reference to using the handbrake "like a car" when attempting to get the semis moving on a steep hill. The Hamster was worried about rolling into Oliver and bowed out of the challenge. Also, if I recall correctly, Russia is part of both Europe and Asia. I want to say 70 and 30 percent respectively.