Slow at accelerating ( read other posts)

[tankinbeans]

Is this yet another example of how irrelevant 0-60 times are? In my area, if you try to max the performance and meet your car's published 0-60, the police would likely notice and give you a reckless driving ticket. It's been my observation that the only people who care about 0-60 are braggerts and that the rest of us just go about our business. Most people take 20 seconds to achieve that speed anyway; my mom thinks that one is killing the car if one allows it to rev higher than 3000rpm.

[theholycow]

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone around here getting ticketed for accelerating fast, although I bet if you went around driving like that in something very fast or very attention-getting it could happen. You'd think with the usual slow acceleration here that it'd really draw attention, but cops here just go after the low-hanging fruit of people cruising above the speed limit and almost nothing else.

[Shadow]

Is this yet another example of how irrelevant 0-60 times are? In my area, if you try to max the performance and meet your car's published 0-60, the police would likely notice and give you a reckless driving ticket. It's been my observation that the only people who care about 0-60 are braggerts and that the rest of us just go about our business. Most people take 20 seconds to achieve that speed anyway; my mom thinks that one is killing the car if one allows it to rev higher than 3000rpm.

I don't think 0-60 times are irrelevant at all. It's a great indicator to gauge the performance/acceleration of one car compared to the next. For example, I'd have a pretty good idea of how a car would respond when I'm trying to merge onto a highway. A car with a 0-60 time of 6 seconds would certainly get up to highway speeds much faster than a car with a 0-60 time of 11 seconds. I'd rather have a car that can get up to speed quickly and safely merge with highway traffic, especially when traffic is heavy.

BTW, when it comes to speed, police usually ticket people for exceeding the posted speed limit. I don't think there are any laws that govern how fast one can accelerate to get up to the speed limit. So if the speed limit is 65 mph and I go full throttle to get to that speed, I don't think cops would care. I've never been ticketed for accelerating too fast, only for exceeding the speed limit.

Tell you mom that she should wind out her engine every so often and blow out the cobwebs . She's not going to hurt anything. Point out the redline on her tachometer (if she has one) and explain to her that the redline is what shouldn't be exceeded, not 3000 rpm.

[Tups]

I wonder if having four gears instead of six gives me some advantage in my Escort. I don't seem to be much slower than at least some cars on the road.

[Shadow]

I wonder if having four gears instead of six gives me some advantage in my Escort. I don't seem to be much slower than at least some cars on the road.

An advantage in acceleration? Well, I'd say that the only advantage is probably the fact that you have fewer shifts to make. The less time spent shifting is more time accelerating. But at the same time, a car with 6 forward gears will most definitely have an advantage in its gear ratios. In other words, more forward speeds mean that the transmission can be geared to keep the engine in its sweet spot longer while accelerating.

Like I said earlier, most people aren't racing away from a stoplight....they simply don't use anywhere near the maximum potential of their cars. That's why it is possible to keep up with traffic, even in a basic economy car.

[unitednations161]

You have to realize i like near a military base so half the people here has souped up ricers and ALWAYS race from streetlights. Its really annoying, and to clarify, Im not THAT SLOW accelerating where someone is bumping me in the ass. Im just saying more powerful cars do have to slow down when i make my 1st to 2nd shift unless I accept some shift shock.


And shadow I ment dont be mean to me like you were being mean to sonic. BUT im new so im not going to take sides. YET lol


You are helping quite a bit shadow. Thanks! and sonic as well. Now you two play nice.

[Tups]

You have to realize i like near a military base so half the people here has souped up ricers and ALWAYS race from streetlights.

Care to explain the connection?

Around here, if you're living near a military base...

[fr4n]

alot of posted 0-60 times are done with hard launches. the launch makes or breaks that 0-60 time, so drivers skill factrs much more than performance, as well as the drivetrain layout (FWD, AWD or RWD) and the grip of the tires, suspension layout etc.

if you wanted to isolate comparing the performance of the powertrain alone, a rolling start race from a given gear would be the best at eliminating unwanted variables.

[Shadow]

alot of posted 0-60 times are done with hard launches. the launch makes or breaks that 0-60 time, so drivers skill factrs much more than performance, as well as the drivetrain layout (FWD, AWD or RWD) and the grip of the tires, suspension layout etc.

if you wanted to isolate comparing the performance of the powertrain alone, a rolling start race from a given gear would be the best at eliminating unwanted variables.

That's one of the reasons some of the magazines publish 5-60 mph times. That eliminates the launch. Plus, a lot of people don't want to abuse their cars by launching at hard as they can, so a 5-60 mph time gives them a more "real world" idea of how the car would perform. On the other hand, it really doesn't matter because 0-60 times are completely valid if you compare them from one car to another. It's just giving us an idea of the car's performance, even if an owner isn't skilled enough to duplicate the published times.

[fr4n]

alot of posted 0-60 times are done with hard launches. the launch makes or breaks that 0-60 time, so drivers skill factrs much more than performance, as well as the drivetrain layout (FWD, AWD or RWD) and the grip of the tires, suspension layout etc.

if you wanted to isolate comparing the performance of the powertrain alone, a rolling start race from a given gear would be the best at eliminating unwanted variables.

That's one of the reasons some of the magazines publish 5-60 mph times. That eliminates the launch. Plus, a lot of people don't want to abuse their cars by launching at hard as they can, so a 5-60 mph time gives them a more "real world" idea of how the car would perform. On the other hand, it really doesn't matter because 0-60 times are completely valid if you compare them from one car to another. It's just giving us an idea of the car's performance, even if an owner isn't skilled enough to duplicate the published times.

Really? i dont read enough magazines lol. i thought 0-60 and 1/4 mile times were the most common tests.

in the end, power figures, torque figures, 0-60 times, weight, gear ratios, none of them can really predict how one car will perform compared to another. they give a rough idea of how it should turn out, thats all

completely unpredictable, only way to tell is to use your ass as a dyno and drive them.

[Shadow]

Really? i dont read enough magazines lol. i thought 0-60 and 1/4 mile times were the most common tests.

in the end, power figures, torque figures, 0-60 times, weight, gear ratios, none of them can really predict how one car will perform compared to another. they give a rough idea of how it should turn out, thats all

completely unpredictable, only way to tell is to use your ass as a dyno and drive them.

I disagree. Comparison tests are a great way to compare the performance potential of two cars. If someone buys a new car and he's not a skilled enough driver to get the maximum performance out of the car, it doesn't really matter because the same would be true if he purchased a different car.

Personally, I can read a road test of any car and know whether or not I'd rule it out as a car I would purchase without ever sitting in the driver's seat. So in that sense, comparison tests and performance test results are invaluable to me.

[fr4n]

Really? i dont read enough magazines lol. i thought 0-60 and 1/4 mile times were the most common tests.

in the end, power figures, torque figures, 0-60 times, weight, gear ratios, none of them can really predict how one car will perform compared to another. they give a rough idea of how it should turn out, thats all

completely unpredictable, only way to tell is to use your ass as a dyno and drive them.

I disagree. Comparison tests are a great way to compare the performance potential of two cars. If someone buys a new car and he's not a skilled enough driver to get the maximum performance out of the car, it doesn't really matter because the same would be true if he purchased a different car.

Personally, I can read a road test of any car and know whether or not I'd rule it out as a car I would purchase without ever sitting in the driver's seat. So in that sense, comparison tests and performance test results are invaluable to me.

to truly be able to predict exactly how 2 cars will behave in a race compared to each other you must know:

engine torque/power curve, curb weight, driver weight, end gear ratio for each gear, transmission loss of each car, and to some extent its aero dynamics.

first you have to facotr in transmission loss to find wheel horsepower. Then find the wheel power-weight ratio, and re plot it aginst the rpm range. given weight is constant, the new curve should be proportional to the old.

then factor in gearing.

with these new curves, plot it against road speed, then do above steps for the other car.

what this new chart determines is how much torque/power each car is putting to the road at any given road speed, relative to their weight. this determines the acceleration potential at each given road speed.

we still havent factored in traction and aerodynamics

and biggest puzzle of all is how to determine the actual lead in distance and terminal velocity that a given acceleration advantage has. remember a race is over a DISTANCE.


eg car A maybe putting down 300 whp while car A is only putting down 150hp

yet car A is 100m behind car B and is only going 50mph

car b is travelling at a terminal velocity of 75mph.

Car A is flooring it yet for at least the first couple seconds car B is STILL pulling away.
so exactly how much acceleration does it take for you to PULL away and keep the lead? how do you figure out the behaviour of actual acceleration and its effect on distance covered over time.?

so much mathematics, wouldnt you rather just test drive/race both cars?

[fr4n]

oh yea not to mention turbo lag, which completely changes the shape of a given torque curve.

[RomPirate]

BTW, when it comes to speed, police usually ticket people for exceeding the posted speed limit. I don't think there are any laws that govern how fast one can accelerate to get up to the speed limit. So if the speed limit is 65 mph and I go full throttle to get to that speed, I don't think cops would care. I've never been ticketed for accelerating too fast, only for exceeding the speed limit.

In CA they can ticket you for accelerating "too fast", its called "exhibition of speed".

[Shadow]

to truly be able to predict exactly how 2 cars will behave in a race compared to each other you must know:

engine torque/power curve, curb weight, driver weight, end gear ratio for each gear, transmission loss of each car, and to some extent its aero dynamics.

first you have to facotr in transmission loss to find wheel horsepower. Then find the wheel power-weight ratio, and re plot it aginst the rpm range. given weight is constant, the new curve should be proportional to the old.

then factor in gearing.

with these new curves, plot it against road speed, then do above steps for the other car.

what this new chart determines is how much torque/power each car is putting to the road at any given road speed, relative to their weight. this determines the acceleration potential at each given road speed.

we still havent factored in traction and aerodynamics

and biggest puzzle of all is how to determine the actual lead in distance and terminal velocity that a given acceleration advantage has. remember a race is over a DISTANCE.


eg car A maybe putting down 300 whp while car A is only putting down 150hp

yet car A is 100m behind car B and is only going 50mph

car b is travelling at a terminal velocity of 75mph.

Car A is flooring it yet for at least the first couple seconds car B is STILL pulling away.
so exactly how much acceleration does it take for you to PULL away and keep the lead? how do you figure out the behaviour of actual acceleration and its effect on distance covered over time.?

so much mathematics, wouldnt you rather just test drive/race both cars?

I think you completely missed my point. I don't have to know any of that because I can simply pick up a magazine and read the road test results, which give me all the performance data for the car. In other words, if Motor Trend magazine publishes a road test review of a car that interests me, they've already given me all the information I need to know if I'd be interested in actually test driving and then purchasing the car myself. That's where I find the value in car magazines. Last year I was in the market for a new car and I narrowed my choices down to just three cars without ever going to a single car dealership.