Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

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CynicsaurusRex
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Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by CynicsaurusRex »

Hello all. I have been lurking around this site for a couple weeks now trying to supplement my driving with the tips I've learned from everyone's advice. I purchased my first manual car (a 2009 VW Rabbit) at the end of October and since put about 2,500 miles on the clock. I've definitely improved since bringing her home, man that was a jerky ride. However I could use advice on several things. First, launching. I have learned to launch consistent if I release the clutch very slowly,I haven't stalled in weeks using this method, however if I try to launch faster I am really jerky. Any advice for launching quickly? Also I have a bit of trouble with smooth upshifts if I let the revs exceed about 2500. What can I do to upshift quickly and smoothly? Worst of all is my 1>2 shift I have to let the revs drop considerably before shifting otherwise I buck the car. Thanks all for your help and the advice that I have already gained from this site.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by AHTOXA »

In both of your scenarios - launching and upshift, the key is timing as well as balance between clutch and throttle.

There is NOT going to be a tip out there (or here), that will quickly make you drive smooth and fast. You will need time to develop that muscle memory for launching and shifting.

Now, I have actually had a 2008 Rabbit before and I am VERY familiar with how that car drives. Launching was an issue for me as well. It seems like you are doing everything right there. As time goes on you will notice that you are launching faster and faster. As you practice, feel free to play around with timing, clutch and throttle inputs. See what works better and what worse worse. Then adapt towards what works better but don't overthink it. I know that to THIS day, if I were to really concentrate on my shifting, I would me a little less smooth than usual. Your mind is the enemy here and muscle memory is your friend.

For 1-2 shifting on this particular car: to shift faster, you will need to drag the revs down with the clutch. Unfortunately the rev hand is severe with this one and it's one of the few things I didn't like about the car. So, once you're getting ready to shift into second, clutch in, get out of first, get the shifter into second while simultaneously releasing the clutch before adding throttle. Now, how much you release, how long - it all depends on where your shift point is, how fast you're going, etc. You must remember that to be smooth, you WILL sacrifice some speed and vice versa.

At 2500 miles on the car, you still have a ways to go. Even though the Rabbit wasn't my first manual car, it was the first manual car I owned and driven every day. It took me about 10-20k miles on it to become really consistent.

I was like you, over thinking and over analyzing. It's best to relax, take the jerky shift, experiment with timing and amount of throttle and clutch and let your body sort out the timing based on the subconscious analyzing rather than conscious.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by AHTOXA »

Oh and welcome! At one point, there were 3 of us, here, 3 Rabbit owners that owned the car at the same time. We're still here but the Rabbits are not. They are great cars, but the rev hang was annoying. It's probably worse than any other drive-by-wire car I had since then. But don't fret - it doesn't make it a bad car and you will not know any difference unless you have another manual car to drive at the same time (especially one with old-school cable throttle).
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by potownrob »

CynicsaurusRex wrote:Hello all. I have been lurking around this site for a couple weeks now trying to supplement my driving with the tips I've learned from everyone's advice. I purchased my first manual car (a 2009 VW Rabbit) at the end of October and since put about 2,500 miles on the clock. I've definitely improved since bringing her home, man that was a jerky ride.
Welcome aboard!! :o :) :D The Rabbit's a nice car and definitely a good first manual car. I recently got a 2012 Jetta, albeit in auto form. I am older, fatter and the shifting isn't as fun and easy as it once was. The 2.5 litre I-5 engine is something to behold. It's quick in my Jetta; I can't imagine how much more fun it must be in a manual Rabbit.
However I could use advice on several things. First, launching. I have learned to launch consistent if I release the clutch very slowly,I haven't stalled in weeks using this method, however if I try to launch faster I am really jerky. Any advice for launching quickly?
not sure how you're doing things, but it sounds like you might need to add more gas. adding more gas will allow you to release the clutch more quickly. smoothness, pedal control etc. will come in time.
Also I have a bit of trouble with smooth upshifts if I let the revs exceed about 2500. What can I do to upshift quickly and smoothly? Worst of all is my 1>2 shift I have to let the revs drop considerably before shifting otherwise I buck the car. Thanks all for your help and the advice that I have already gained from this site.
try shifting sooner on the 1->2 shift, like at 2k rpms. you probably have some rev-hang going on, but you should eventually learn to compensate for it, or you can see if you can get the ECU reflashed to lower the rev-hang.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by CynicsaurusRex »

Thanks for the quick reply! Although it's basically brand new I love the car and it has been a lot of fun to learn on. I have definitely noticed when watching the tach that the revs seem to take forever to drop. Keep practicing I shall do. I already feel myself becoming a lot more comfortable with the car and using the clutch. For the 1>2 shift I have noticed that it helps if I pause at the catch point for just a moment and then completing the shift, I guess this would be slipping the clutch while moving? Is this an acceptable practice? Basically I'm terrified of burning my clutch up haha. I just can't afford to replace one right now, and everyone has told me whenever you use the clutch you burn it a little and that you should be as fast as possible when shifting.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by AHTOXA »

CynicsaurusRex wrote:Thanks for the quick reply! Although it's basically brand new I love the car and it has been a lot of fun to learn on. I have definitely noticed when watching the tach that the revs seem to take forever to drop. Keep practicing I shall do. I already feel myself becoming a lot more comfortable with the car and using the clutch. For the 1>2 shift I have noticed that it helps if I pause at the catch point for just a moment and then completing the shift, I guess this would be slipping the clutch while moving? Is this an acceptable practice? Basically I'm terrified of burning my clutch up haha. I just can't afford to replace one right now, and everyone has told me whenever you use the clutch you burn it a little and that you should be as fast as possible when shifting.
Pausing your clutch movement, or slowing it during the upshift is what I was referring to when I mentioned dragging down the revs with the clutch. This will make the revs come down quicker, allowing you to shift faster. Do not worry about burning your clutch. That kind of slipping will not harm it. Naturally, you want to avoid heavy slipping while on the throttle, aside from when you launch.

So it sounds like you are doing it right. You just need time to develop and retain muscle memory to attain smoothness and consistency as well as speed.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by CynicsaurusRex »

Welcome aboard!! The Rabbit's a nice car and definitely a good first manual car. I recently got a 2012 Jetta, albeit in auto form. I am older, fatter and the shifting isn't as fun and easy as it once was. The 2.5 litre I-5 engine is something to behold. It's quick in my Jetta; I can't imagine how much more fun it must be in a manual Rabbit.
Yeah I love the 2.5. Much more pep than I was used to in my old scion, and I genuinely enjoy daily driving in it.
Pausing your clutch movement, or slowing it during the upshift is what I was referring to when I mentioned dragging down the revs with the clutch. This will make the revs come down quicker, allowing you to shift faster. Do not worry about burning your clutch. That kind of slipping will not harm it.
Okay good. When I shift with a short pause to let the gears mesh properly I get a much smoother shift, but I have tended to avoided it because I'm paranoid about clutch wear. I think I have only really burned the clutch one time, and that was a while back when I was practicing rev matching my downshifts. I know that this has probably been covered a 100+ times but what is the proper way to use the clutch without damaging it too much. How long is too long on the clutch?
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by AHTOXA »

There's no particular time, where one can say that it's now burning the clutch. I bet that I can sit there for a minute, slipping the clutch with no throttle input above idle and it won't do much damage. If I do that near redline, things will be different.

As a basic rule of thumb, the lower the RPMs and the less force (throttle) is input, the longer you can slip. As you're driving, launching can be a few seconds of slip, while shifting it shouldn't take you more than 1-2 seconds of slipping.

But once again, don't focus on that too much - you'll probably end up overthinking like I have when I was learning. That would lead to frustration, which led to even worse driving.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by CynicsaurusRex »

Yeah I have definitely noticed if I just let my feet and hand do their own thing I will have a much better drive. Also when I have someone in the car with me and I focus on being smooth I tend to have more problems. I guess I really just need to keep on keeping on and eventually muscle memory will take over.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by theholycow »

I'm one of the other former 2008 Rabbiters here and I echo what AHTOXA said in its entirety. VW did a great job on so much of the car but throttle and clutch are awful. If you can drive the Rabbit then you can drive anything.

If you need to take the Rabbit up to 2500RPM, there is something seriously scary coming up behind you really fast. That 2.5 loves low RPM. I often reached only 1200-1300RPM before shifting; in fact I even often shifted earlier than that. I also ran out of gears by 30mph...I was wishing for a 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th gear that don't exist. Even with my ultra-low-RPM shifting I was accelerating faster than everyone else on the road. I think they made the gears slightly taller for 2009 but not a lot. You don't need to be as extreme as I was, but 2500 is probably wholly unnecessary.

With plenty of low-RPM torque (and plenty more at higher RPM), shifting at higher RPM will cause a harder kick than it would in other cars. Combine that with rev hang and it's even worse. All you can do is shifter at lower RPM and slip the clutch however necessary to make the shift smooth, there are no other options with that car. The clutch is made to do that job so don't worry about it.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by AHTOXA »

I remember 2500 being perfectly normal in the Rabbit. It accommodated the way I like the drive perfectly - up to speed quickly and into the top gear.

So, OP - the beauty of the manual is that you shift when YOU want to shift, depending on how you like to drive.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by CynicsaurusRex »

In my line of work I drive a lot of vehicles in and out of garages and honestly I like the catch point on my Rabbit more than most cars. Hondas especially seem like the clutch catches really high. However I think the rev hang tends to give me a lot of problems when trying to shift quickly. I usually try to keep my revs around 2K. Thanks for all the input guys.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by rml605 »

In my case with my car, i've found just getting back on the gas quicker solves the jerk of 1-2. My clutch catches quickly, so I can get off of it pretty quickly, so it's kind of hard to get on it too quick and end up burning clutch. Not sure where a Rabbit clutch catches.

I have driven plenty of VWs and actually found them the easiest to engage 1st due to their insane low torque. Especially the new GLI. I gave it a tap of gas while releasing the clutch quicker and it was a smooth launch. Those VWs love that low RPM. I love that.

Im not as experienced as others here such as holycow, but I think I may know your problem with launching. My biggest problem in smooth launches was I was just releasing the clutch to the friction point and I thought my work was done. I started giving it a slight pause aka slip and now im smooth as ever. The key practice. You don't even want to know how bad I was when I first started. Will always remember my 3rd day driving and I stalled at a highway light as the first one at the light. :lol:
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by rml605 »

CynicsaurusRex wrote:In my line of work I drive a lot of vehicles in and out of garages and honestly I like the catch point on my Rabbit more than most cars. Hondas especially seem like the clutch catches really high. However I think the rev hang tends to give me a lot of problems when trying to shift quickly. I usually try to keep my revs around 2K. Thanks for all the input guys.
Honda clutches generally catch rather quickly, but they're also usually short distances compared to others.

My rev hang is pretty bad, too.
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Re: Another Newbie that Could Use Advice

Post by daleadbull »

theholycow wrote:I'm one of the other former 2008 Rabbiters here and I echo what AHTOXA said in its entirety. VW did a great job on so much of the car but throttle and clutch are awful. If you can drive the Rabbit then you can drive anything.

If you need to take the Rabbit up to 2500RPM, there is something seriously scary coming up behind you really fast. That 2.5 loves low RPM. I often reached only 1200-1300RPM before shifting; in fact I even often shifted earlier than that. I also ran out of gears by 30mph...I was wishing for a 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th gear that don't exist. Even with my ultra-low-RPM shifting I was accelerating faster than everyone else on the road. I think they made the gears slightly taller for 2009 but not a lot. You don't need to be as extreme as I was, but 2500 is probably wholly unnecessary.

With plenty of low-RPM torque (and plenty more at higher RPM), shifting at higher RPM will cause a harder kick than it would in other cars. Combine that with rev hang and it's even worse. All you can do is shifter at lower RPM and slip the clutch however necessary to make the shift smooth, there are no other options with that car. The clutch is made to do that job so don't worry about it.
You must have had some insanely long gearing, when I'm in 1st my RPM shoots up like crazy. Overall, my gearing is pretty short probably cus of the sportier nature of my car. My rev hang is also not that bad, maybe VW learned something since the Mk5 Golf/Rabbits.

Another thing I just picked up on is the slight dead spot on the throttle when you're just barely pressing on it. You think you're giving it gas but in reality you are not, so you probably have to be a little more aggressive with the gas. I don't think its like that in all gears but its definitely true for 1st, is it the same way in all manual cars? Do you have to press on the gas harder in 1st to open the throttle?
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