Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

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watkins
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by watkins »

Teamwork wrote:Definitely agree and honestly- if it wasn't a serious roll of the dice I would highly consider doing it. I'm satisfied with the power being made and how it is in terms of drive-a-bility but I think the sweet spot for FWD would essentially be 260-280 hp range and close to 300 lb ft of torque. I really wouldn't want anything higher then that and couldn't find an excuse to do anything more extreme. I have tire slippage on the crappy OEM Bridgestone's if I am on like fine sand or at a certain angle of pavement. Nevermind, the care needed in the rain and wet...
Those power figures are exactly what I tuned for -up from 225hp/252 lb-ft. I have plenty of friends with the same car who went for more, but to me it doesnt make sense. The 900/9-3 chassis is terrible, and any more power that what I have very quickly overwhelms the suspension design. Its also just not usable power after a certain point.

If/when I get a 9-5 Aero wagon I have every intention of hitting the 300hp mark. I know that chassis can handle it well. Traction control (which I dont have) will also help.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Having more engine than chassis is less satisfying than having more chassis than engine.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by watkins »

Undeniably
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by tankinbeans »

I can entertain myself for days with my 252/270. I've been trying to teach myself just how fast I can push it on a surface street without being dangerous and that's entertaining. Figuring out when a small heel-toe downshift is necessary is fun. Trying to figure out how far to rev up for a 6-3 downshift heading into a turn is fun. The noise from the turbo heard from inside the car is fun.

I feel like too much power enduces a person to feel a "requirement" to use it and make really bad decisions. The line between track driving (with controlled situations and minimal likelihood of injuring an innocent 3rd party) and street driving (with uncontrolled situations and a strong likelihood of injuring a 3rd party) is blurred. Look at all these nards in their Hellcats, Lambos, Camaros and how they've rearranged their front end after taking out a pole and a group of pedestrians.

A friend with the new 2.7TT F150 takes any affront on the road as an excuse to start driving like a burro. He wonders why I always try to drive. He will weave in and out of traffic to get away from idiots whereas I will drop back and wait for an opening sufficiently large to pass.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by Teamwork »

Rope-Pusher wrote:Having more engine than chassis is less satisfying than having more chassis than engine.
Spot on one of the reasons why I wouldn't of gone FR-S/BRZ over the vehicles I was looking at. Engine is definitely something that will remind you every stop sign/every stop light.

I still remember the golden age of the Japanese sports cars when they had a gentleman's agreement of the amount of HP made amongst the brands and it was like 280-290 range. Now everyone's trying to outdo each other by like marginal numbers that probably can not even be felt on the butt dyno. I feel like VW is going through their last generation that they are going to be "playing it safe". WRX and Focus ST are 250+ and numbers could be used to sell... and it probably works. Can't tell you how many times the Ford sales guy was asking me how I could even consider a GTI when it was 20-40 down on power in each category.

If I could do some light performance mods without clutch slip I'd call it a day. But, realistically I'd rather not risk it period and still can safely say I'm satisfied. Shifter improvements though I'm all for... hence the thread in the parts and mods section lol.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by Jastreb »

What are these Torques you all speak of?
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by potownrob »

watkins wrote:The 900/9-3 chassis is terrible, and any more power that what I have very quickly overwhelms the suspension design. Its also just not usable power after a certain point.
is the newer 9-3 chassis any better??
If/when I get a 9-5 Aero wagon I have every intention of hitting the 300hp mark. I know that chassis can handle it well.
oh...ok :twisted:
Traction control (which I dont have) will also help.
lol wut :?: :!: :lol: :shock: 8)
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by watkins »

potownrob wrote:
watkins wrote:The 900/9-3 chassis is terrible, and any more power that what I have very quickly overwhelms the suspension design. Its also just not usable power after a certain point.
is the newer 9-3 chassis any better??
I believe so. Not familiar with that platform at all.
potownrob wrote:
Traction control (which I dont have) will also help.
lol wut :?: :!: :lol: :shock: 8)
What are you wuting? The fact that my 1999 car doesn't have traction control, or the fact that having it in my intended car will help make use of the extra power?
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by potownrob »

watkins wrote:
potownrob wrote:
Traction control (which I dont have) will also help.
lol wut :?: :!: :lol: :shock: 8)
What are you wuting? The fact that my 1999 car doesn't have traction control, or the fact that having it in my intended car will help make use of the extra power?
latter - i've never found traction control to be much help. of course i don't have 300 hp :evil:
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by theholycow »

My experiences with traction control have always been that it was too sensitive and it overcompensates. The tiniest bit of slippage and it killed power down to nothing; more appropriate would be that it kicks in mildly if there's a lot of slippage and if there's still too much then it would increase. However, I may not have driven with a modern system that you'd find now. That was from a 1997 kinda low-end model. Luckily it was easily disabled with an ergonomically friendly button.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by tankinbeans »

My treason control is the same. A bit of slip and revs cut to about 1500. Makes winter driving a real treat if the car is trying to deal with snow. I can think of a few intersections I had to creep through because it couldn't take enough of a bite.
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Still a achilles heel...

Post by Teamwork »

Still a achilles heel...

I'm still presented a dozen times a day this "resume gear (2nd in particular)" transition where my intention is I may/should need to stop completely (0 mph) but traffic starts to resume whether it be in a parking lot negotiating slow speeds or on the main roads when a traffic light turns green and traffic starts to resume. I've figured out how to slip 2nd gear at a lower speed now, bringing it up to an appropriate 2nd gear speed: for instance if I'm rolling slowly at like 6-7 mph I will slip 2nd a bit, aiding it with gas while riding in the friction point and fully lift up once I get going and get to about 10-11 mph where I can sustain that speed without stalling. It's still a bit of a foreign concept to me but I've done it on a few occasions and no catastrophe.

It still remains an issue of me smoothing out though when I have to re-engage 1st gear on the move in the 3-6 mph range. I can't do it without getting some bouncing or bucking in what feels like no matter how slow and controlled I "feather" into the bite point of engagement. I'm not double clutching or anything back into 1st but I will shift when going this slow directly into 1st from where ever. I don't feel like I'm letting off the clutch totally too abruptly or with 'unadvised control' but it literally feels like as soon as I reach the tip of the engagement point I start to bounce/buck, so nearly instantly. I'm focused on the clutch pedal during all of this and nothing even touching the throttle which may be my downfall but I would think to totally ease back into 1st that it would be purely clutch control.

I really think this is one of my last major issues that I can think of. Nothing else seems to falter me but man is this one still nagging me. Being able to increase the threshhold of usage for 2nd though to a slower speed with the clutch slipping has aided this but I'm still caught in between sometimes. I'll usually take a 'grumbling' engine while slipping 2nd over bouncing and bucking in 1st any time though.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by IMBoring25 »

Good shifts on the move are actually all about throttle. The resume in first is probably the single hardest thing to get smooth in all of manual transmission driving. The engine has a lot of leverage and comparatively small changes in throttle can produce a lot of acceleration or a lot of engine braking. You're not likely to get it perfect enough to avoid feathering the clutch but you do have to be close with the throttle first.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by theholycow »

To some extent, I'd say you may be describing a situation where EVERY driver is bound to get some bouncing or bucking.

Maybe it would help to practice second gear launching (from a stop). Then you can parlay that skill into the rolling 2nd gear launch instead of bucking around in 1st.
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Re: Refining Technique & Scenario Based Q's

Post by Teamwork »

Good shifts on the move are actually all about throttle. The resume in first is probably the single hardest thing to get smooth in all of manual transmission driving. The engine has a lot of leverage and comparatively small changes in throttle can produce a lot of acceleration or a lot of engine braking. You're not likely to get it perfect enough to avoid feathering the clutch but you do have to be close with the throttle first.
theholycow wrote:To some extent, I'd say you may be describing a situation where EVERY driver is bound to get some bouncing or bucking.
That might just be it that I don't use throttle but the one time I tried to blip and release precisely, I over rev'ed and it pushed me forward quite a bit. I'm guessing in order you really have to be spot on with the revs upon the clutch engagement? Yeah, pretty much no matter what I do with clutch movement only at a soft rolling launch back into 1st will land me some bucking/bouncing. Higher speed = more bounce possibility and it's really no matter how "slowly" I release. I relate a sense of feeling that as soon as I get into the initial friction point that it starts to hop and bounce. Again, I'm unsure of the approach or technique that should be taken when in this situation and some days I feel like I'm in this situation ALOT.

Is it an over exaggerated that I try my best to resume 2nd in a quicker speed or opt to brake more dramatically so I don't have to be rolling as much and re-engaging 1st is smoother?
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