Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

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MidnightInGotham
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Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby MidnightInGotham » Wed May 31, 2017 10:04 am

Long time no post, I had a fun one this morning. Been heel-toeing to get used to it, slowing way down (going about 40 ish) and going 6>4. Clutch in, blip, and slide the gear lever over... but actually went into 2nd!! Of course I didn't notice until I let the clutch out and a nice nose dive.

This was no money shift, revs jumped to about 2.8k as I was also breaking so no over-revving but sure felt like I hit a wall.

Question is, did I do any damage here? Car shifted fine after that, didn't notice any clutch smell (though I'm still not sure I know what it smells like).
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Rope-Pusher
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby Rope-Pusher » Wed May 31, 2017 12:29 pm

Hey Marty,
In the Future, you're gonna attempt to perform the same shift, but you're gonna push the stick forward, out of 6th gear, allow the Select spring to pull the lever over to the 3/4 shift gate, and THEN pull the lever rearward into 4th gear, because there is no need to push the lever to the left when the spring will take care of that and CANNOT overshoot the 3/4 shift gate.
Doc

ps - if you had done any serious damage, you would be TELLING us about it, not ASKING us about it.
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theholycow
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby theholycow » Wed May 31, 2017 10:31 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:ps - if you had done any serious damage, you would be TELLING us about it, not ASKING us about it.

This.

Exhausted from a long day after a short night, I made the exact same mistake last week while on the freeway doing about 55. Much closer to a money shift, in my car at that speed. Thought I blew it for a second. Meh, whatever, it's fine.
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IMBoring25
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby IMBoring25 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:42 am

Shortly after I got the new (to me) truck, I was trapped in the right lane of the highway by traffic passing on my left and tried to slow slightly to allow traffic merging in. Said traffic got alongside my front fender and nailed the binders. My hand forced, I hit third (which would have been the right gear for the situation in anything but a 3/4-ton+ truck). Much noise was made and I was sure it was going to be double-plus ungood, but there have been no apparent consequences since. I concur, if you don't already know it's a big problem, it probably isn't.

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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby Rope-Pusher » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:06 am

In theser modern times we live in, the clutch disk, when new, can probably spin at least 1.5-2x engine redline speed without bursting. As the clutch ages (especially if it is hot, or has been exposed to a lot of heat from slipping during its life) this burst speed can come down, but it should always be greater than the engine redline speed.

That being said, if you completed the mis-shift with the shift lever and the clutch disk didn't blow up, it all depends on whether you re-engaged the clutch (let up on the pedal) or not as to whether the engine was ever in danger from over-speeding. If the engine had started to make ticking or knocking noises afterward, or if it stalled at idle or felt down on power, or if chunks of your oilpan or crankcase and copious amounts of your engine oil were littering the pavement, then indeed it was a "money shift".

Also, often, after a clutch disk explosion, the starter pinion gear and/or clutch release bearing/concentric slave cylinder may be jambed with shredded bits of the clutch friction material and need to be replaced as well. There will likely be a bunch of the friction material in the clutch cover as well, but it can be cleaned out and re-used if it is not ancient.
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Teamwork
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby Teamwork » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:22 am

Side note: Heel and toeing in this car is definitely not easy what so ever. Granted I haven't dedicated the time to practice vigorously but from the way the pedal placement is, to the seat bottom angle, to the performance package brakes - I've kind of just let it go. Any feeble attempts I've made usually involve the car braking too hard from initial pressure and losing any benefit a heel and toe would've had.

I wear a size 10 sneaker and 9.5 dress shoe (admittedly wear dress shoes more) but I can't really get my foot across securely. The brake pedal also seems to have quite a bit of distance from the throttle and is not parallel.

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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby IMBoring25 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:57 pm

Most vehicles seem to be set up fairly well for the official way to heel and toe if you're near braking limits. I never am. I wind up usually using heel on the brake and toe on the gas and I still had to make a pedal extender for the gas on my new truck.

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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:18 am

MidnightInGotham wrote:Question is, did I do any damage here? Car shifted fine after that, didn't notice any clutch smell (though I'm still not sure I know what it smells like).

From Autoweek's efforts to unstick a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon from a 30" deep mud hole:
"By the way, Jeep clutch smells a lot like rotting animal carcass with a little big of brake pad thrown in. That’s in case you’re ever in some sort of contest where you need pick out a clutch by smell. You’re welcome. "

Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews ... z4kGgLnKoR

I'm thinking that what helped them was that the clutch was essentially water-cooled - bellhousings are not sealed. Problem is, that wasn't just clean water seeping in there. To keep the clutch and release bearing happy, they really ought to take it apart, clean out the grit and regrease the input shaft. Of course, after all the effort to take things apart, it's SO EASY to change the clutch, input shaft pilot, release bearing, friction disk and clutch cover, it's ONLY money at that point.

You really cannot ventilate the bellhousing enough to carry off enough heat to save the clutch from over-heating during slippage. If I were king, I'd consider sealing the bellhousing and running a vent hose to a point up above the water-fording depth - it IS a Jeep, right? You really shouldn't have to drop the trans after every mudhole.
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watkins
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby watkins » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:33 pm

Or have a bigger inspection cover where a hose could be shoved to clear out the bellhousing. Of course that would require designing some kind of sealed grease stuff for the release pivot and input shaft.
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby Rope-Pusher » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:23 pm

Or a drain port with screwon cap and a hose port so you could rev it up in neutral with the clutch slinging the water around......the vent hose thing is much simpler.
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watkins
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby watkins » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:11 pm

Them Wanklers have too many damn vent hoses as it is.
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby Rope-Pusher » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:11 pm

watkins wrote:Them Wanklers have too many damn vent hoses as it is.

Have you ever seen the vent hose for the Amish Wrangler Silverbox (NSG370)?
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Re: Ouch-Heel Toe Flub

Postby potownrob » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:47 am

Rope-Pusher wrote:
watkins wrote:Them Wanklers have too many damn vent hoses as it is.

Have you ever seen the vent hose for the Amish Wrangler Silverbox (NSG370)?
bump for answer to rope's question.
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