Tripel Axel

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theholycow
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by theholycow »

Careful with that word...the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act says you can't void the entire warranty so easily, but can deny claims that can be blamed on a modification. For example, lifting can't reasonably be blamed for a failed stereo. Of course in reality if a dealer wants to deny everything then it's unlikely that a customer would take them to court.

However, lifting (and its companion, oversized tires) can reasonably be blamed for failures in a whole lot of major, expensive systems...for example, the entire drivetrain from the transmission all the way to the wheel bearings.
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by watkins »

Thats pretty much what I was going to say. Thanks for perpetuating my ability to be lazy!
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by tankinbeans »

On a slightly related note to lift kits, can oversized wheels lead to significantly decreased mileage? My brother says he's getting 200 miles to a tank in the Sunfire mom gave him. He decided to bump it from 15s to 18s.

I recall watching an episode of Top Gear, where they had real information, and the Hamster said bigger wheels effectively gear the vehicle up making starting out more challenging on the engine. How does that work?
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by theholycow »

tankinbeans wrote:On a slightly related note to lift kits, can oversized wheels lead to significantly decreased mileage? My brother says he's getting 200 miles to a tank in the Sunfire mom gave him. He decided to bump it from 15s to 18s.

I recall watching an episode of Top Gear, where they had real information, and the Hamster said bigger wheels effectively gear the vehicle up making starting out more challenging on the engine. How does that work?
Upsized wheels with tires of the same outside diameter could potentially have a small effect on fuel economy for stoplight racers if you believe the kool-aid about rotating weight, and if wheel weighs more than tire. Semi-efficient drivers shouldn't experience that effect. However, rolling resistance from sidewall hysteresis is likely to be higher, which could have a moderate effect on fuel economy for everybody.

Changing the outside diameter of the tires, regardless of what happens with wheel size, can definitely have a significant effect on fuel economy, which could go either way depending on the entire situation. Outside diameter of the tire is part of overall gear ratio. An efficient driver in a car whose gears are too short for his driving (or anybody with most manual transmissions on the highway) will gain fuel economy from larger tires. A stoplight racer might gain acceleration (and maybe have no effect on fuel economy) by using smaller tires.

200 miles on a Sunfire is horrible. The car is broken, your brother fills up before he hits the half-tank mark, or your brother drives like a jerk.

18 inch wheels on a Sunfire is also horrible, dawg.
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by tankinbeans »

I couldn't agree more. The wheels are hideous, but it's not my car so I don't really care. I know he never checks mileage by calculation and his numbers are likely screwed. I know he thinks nothing of hot-dogging it and doesn't understand that speed kills mileage. In the other hand he claims to have gotten twice the mileage in his POS Cavalier of the same vintage.
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by theholycow »

tankinbeans wrote:In the other hand he claims to have gotten twice the mileage in his POS Cavalier of the same vintage.
The differences between a Sunfire and a Cavalier are as follows:
1. Cosmetic changes to sheet metal/plastic, mostly front and rear ends
2. Sunfire has slightly more sound deadening than Cavalier
Yup. That's all.
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by Squint »

theholycow wrote:Careful with that word...the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act says you can't void the entire warranty so easily, but can deny claims that can be blamed on a modification. For example, lifting can't reasonably be blamed for a failed stereo. Of course in reality if a dealer wants to deny everything then it's unlikely that a customer would take them to court.

However, lifting (and its companion, oversized tires) can reasonably be blamed for failures in a whole lot of major, expensive systems...for example, the entire drivetrain from the transmission all the way to the wheel bearings.
Technically true. But it can pretty much be used as an excuse for anything on the bottom of the truck if they want to, as you said.

Also, in my example, it might have been a powertrain warranty problem... therefore the denied claim.
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Re: Tripel Axel

Post by Rope-Pusher »

tankinbeans wrote:On a slightly related note to lift kits, can oversized wheels lead to significantly decreased mileage? My brother says he's getting 200 miles to a tank in the Sunfire mom gave him. He decided to bump it from 15s to 18s.

I recall watching an episode of Top Gear, where they had real information, and the Hamster said bigger wheels effectively gear the vehicle up making starting out more challenging on the engine. How does that work?
It depends on what 18" wheel and tire combo he is running with, because they might be larger in circumference than the original tire and wheel combination or not.
If they are larger in circumference, and the speedo/odom gearing hasn't been corrected, the indicated miles traveled / rate of speed will be less than the actual miles traveled / rate of speed. Not only will he be showing less miles traveled than the actual distance, but he may well have driven them at a higher rate of speed, both of which would lead to less miles per tankful, whatever it is that he calls a tankful.
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Also, if the vehicle is sitting higher above the road, aerodynamics drag will be higher.
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