Mad Max Beyond Gasoline

[Squint]

You actually made two contradictory observations there. I have read that Tesla does indeed lose money on every car (and that would be especially true if you consider the higher-trim models come with a literally unlimited supply of electricity). Where they make their money is ostensibly selling CAFE credits to other automakers.

TIL. I had no idea they could sell the CAFE credits...

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[theholycow]

I guess once you start selling them, it becomes IAFE. Industry Average Fuel Economy.

[Rope-Pusher]

Running a car on electricity is only clean as the electricity is.

The Union of Concerned Scientists, an advocacy group, took a comprehensive look at this in 2012 and found that a Nissan Leaf driven in California would get the equivalent of 78 mpg, from a CO2 emissions perspective. Driving the car in Colorado, where the electric grid relied heavily on coal, would deliver the equivalent of 34 mpg -- not so impressive, at a time when many gasoline cars get 30 mpg or more.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014061 ... 9274467E4R

[Rope-Pusher]

Why not call them "We-B-Electrons"?

"And while on the subject of money, it is worth noting that i3 drivers in California who activate their ChargeNow cards, which come with the i3, and use it at a participating eVgo Freedom Station (which, admittedly, sounds a bit over the top for what is otherwise described in an internal combustion context as a “gas station”; c’mon, electronics aren’t that fancy) by the end of 2014, will have free DC charging—which necessitates, of course, it i3 being equipped with the SAE DC Fast Charging option—through the end of 2015."

http://www.autofieldguide.com/blog/post ... ng-machine

[Rope-Pusher]

Although there is a whole lot of talk nowadays in the auto industry about materials including aluminum, ultra-high-strength steel, and composites, there is another material that, Jeff Owens, chief technology officer and executive vice president, Delphi Automotive, told the audience this week at the CAR Group Management Briefing Seminars that is going to have huge growth in automotive:

Copper.

Speaking to the issue of increased networking and electrification in vehicles, he said that whereas there is currently about 7.5 kg of copper in the average car, that’s going to go to 15 kg.

What’s more, there is going to be an increase in wiring and cabling from 1 mile to 1.5 miles. There will be a need for vehicular voltage to go from 12 volts to 300 to 600 volts. What was once a $2 connector may become a $20 connector.

Just providing the support for an electrified powertrain will mean an additional cost from $500 to $800 per vehicle.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/blog/post ... rification

[Rope-Pusher]

Dealers Blamed for Dismal EV Market

"The biggest problem identified in the U-C Davis study is lack of information among sales personnel. “There weren’t people on staff who understand the technology or how to explain it,” he says. “Consumers coming in had more knowledge than the people they were buying the vehicles from.”"
http://wardsauto.com/blog/dealers-blame ... rticle_2_b
Isn't that the way it is with any vehicle you purchase?

[IMBoring25]

We had an SAE meeting at a Nissan dealer not too long after they launched the Leaf and they'd just assigned one of the salespeople as their Leaf specialist and given her two junior salespeople to train up. Guess that's the exception rather than the rule.

[Rope-Pusher]

We had an SAE meeting at a Nissan dealer not too long after they launched the Leaf and they'd just assigned one of the salespeople as their Leaf specialist and given her two junior salespeople to train up. Guess that's the exception rather than the rule.

The article warned against having a tech specialist who answers your questions but then has to pass you off to someone that you haven't built up the trusting relationship with...and who might not want to sell you an electric.

I'm sure there were similar issues back when gasoline, electric and steam were slugging it out in the marketplace back before the electric starter gave the ICE dominance.

[Squint]

We had an SAE meeting at a Nissan dealer not too long after they launched the Leaf and they'd just assigned one of the salespeople as their Leaf specialist and given her two junior salespeople to train up. Guess that's the exception rather than the rule.

This seems relatively common - it was the case at the Toyota dealership where I worked. There was a Scion guy, a truck guy, etc... But they were mostly just titles without anything extra other than the individuals being included in a few other tracking metrics and getting info sooner than your average salesperson. While people were supposed to learn from them, it wasn't encouraged unless you went out of your way to do it yourself. The training from corporate people that came to the dealership when a new vehicle was released/updated was probably more informative overall. Granted, this assumes that the salespeople paid attention, which didn't happen quite often.

I would say it is very normal for anyone who actually researches a vehicle to know more about the car than the salesperson.

[Rope-Pusher]

We had an SAE meeting at a Nissan dealer not too long after they launched the Leaf and they'd just assigned one of the salespeople as their Leaf specialist and given her two junior salespeople to train up. Guess that's the exception rather than the rule.

This seems relatively common - it was the case at the Toyota dealership where I worked. There was a Scion guy, a truck guy, etc... But they were mostly just titles without anything extra other than the individuals being included in a few other tracking metrics and getting info sooner than your average salesperson. While people were supposed to learn from them, it wasn't encouraged unless you went out of your way to do it yourself. The training from corporate people that came to the dealership when a new vehicle was released/updated was probably more informative overall. Granted, this assumes that the salespeople paid attention, which didn't happen quite often.

I would say it is very normal for anyone who actually researches a vehicle to know more about the car than the salesperson.

I remember visiting a Ford dealership with my future BIL and the sales guy couldn't find what he was looking for, so he turned the order book around so my future BIL could look for it himself and he found it right away.

[Squint]

When I bought my Fiesta, I knew far more about the car than the sales guy. It wasn't even close. I had been researching the vehicle for a couple of months, so it wasn't that surprising. The sales guys aren't there for the minutia information about the vehicles, they are there to pull a vehicle up and get people to fall in love with a vehicle. Because, you know, money.

[Rope-Pusher]

The sales guys aren't there for the minutia information about the vehicles, they are there to pull a vehicle up and get people to fall in love with a vehicle. Because, you know, money.

It's,...it's a profit deal?

[Rope-Pusher]

China poised to order half a million Chargers



CHINA TO AMP UP CHARGING STATIONS
China wants to put a lot of muscle behind electric cars. Bloomberg reports that China is thinking about spending $16 billion on EV charging stations. And that, folks, is a huge commitment to growing the EV market. Our back of the envelope calculations suggest that could buy half a million Level III charging stations. According to the research company IbisWorld, there are 99,000 gasoline stations in China. We expect to hear an official announcement from Chinese authorities any day now.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-2 ... nding.html

[Rope-Pusher]

EV “STRATEGERY” From Autoline Daily:

And just before we go to break, Earlier this week we reported that China might invest $16 billion into electric car charging stations. Despite disappointing sales of EVs, China is pushing ahead with its EV program and it has nothing to do with going green. China generates 70% of its electricity from coal, and several studies that show China’s air pollution will only get worse if it goes with electric cars. Dr. Frank Zhao! from the Automotive Strategy Research Institute at Tsinghua University points out that China imports 58% of its oil today, and by 2020 that will jump to 70%. He says that scares China’s leadership. But China has at least a century of coal supplies. Dr. Zhao says China would rather have cars that can run on domestic coal instead of imported oil. And he tells Autoline that China literally sees electric cars as a matter of national security.

[Rope-Pusher]

Poor Hybrid Sales Threaten 2025 CAFE Targets

(Their choice of images, not mine. Yeah, I know the Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat isn't a Hybrid vehicle.....it's a dual-fueled vehicle - it burns high-octane gasoline and rubber.)


http://wardsauto.com/politics/poor-hybr ... dium=email