Why traffic exists

[potownrob]

i think i might've found the problem...

[zenfiz6]

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

Without the force-fit Men in Black quote, it's herd mentality. As the Traffic Waves guy said, most people are unwilling to watch people veer in front of them ("I'm LOSING!") so they try not to allow the space for that to happen. Ironically, that means everyone gets where they're going more slowly and most waste fuel and brakes to do it.

How about this one:
Men go crazy in congregations/they only get better one-by-one

This is a cool thread. I tend to think that it's part herd-mentality, part unenlightened self-interest. I've been caught in it, myself; trying to close a gap so that Mr. slot-car-racer can't get ahead of me even through I'm only going to come to a stop in a moment, anyway. But I realize later that I just wasted gas on some schmuck I don't even know and increased my blood pressure at the same time.

Yup....there was a video on YouTube a while back where this guy had a dash cam and he did his best to bust stop-n-go traffic jams by using a slow, but steady speed approach.

Indeed, I've seen this video. But I also remember reading about it, first, somewhere.
(EDIT: Ahhh... Shadow had it!) And when I read it, I remember him saying that the chances of people just jumping in front of you were actually smaller than you'd think.

These days I try very hard to figure out what the average speed of traffic is and stick with that speed unless the gap in front of me gets too small or traffic starts moving again.

And with the tunnel traffic around here, I get plenty of practice. :-/

[Shadow]

I do a lot of coasting like that. I learned it from watching some semis do that and it works great. No need to stab the throttle only to brake 15 yards later. I don't know why people insist doing that so much that I see cars squatting under accel. Why?

I was going to mention that, but you obviously beat me to it. Those big rig drivers don't care at all about keeping up with the car in front of them. They just stay at a steady speed whenever possible.

[ClutchFork]

... Those big rig drivers don't care at all about keeping up with the car in front of them. They just stay at a steady speed whenever possible.

Some of they will about run you over too rather than slow down and hurt their fuel mileage by having to re-accelerate.

[daleadbull]

What Sonic is saying is the "automatic driver mentality" is the cause for lot of the traffic (when there is no additional cars coming in). I agree with that because automatics encourage pulsing gas/brake and the whole "there is a gap in front of me and I need to close it ASAP mentality". Of course not all auto drivers are like that but the majority are and all it takes is a handful to slow down hundreds of cars that follow.

On the other hand, pretty much all manual drivers prefer to keep a constant pace to avoid coming to a complete stop. Of course this only applies on highways where there are no traffic lights or additional people merging in.

[Squint]

On the other hand, pretty much all manual drivers prefer to keep a constant pace to avoid coming to a complete stop.

Eehhhhhhhhhhh, I can't agree with that. I've ridden with many stick drivers who drive the same way as they would in an auto. And I drive an auto back and forth to work the same way as I drive a stick - leaving more space, trying not to bumper ride, etc...

You might have a higher percentage of drivers who prefer to keep a constant pace, but I can't agree with the generalization that pretty much all prefer to do that. There are plenty of "Zoom! Brake! Zoom!" manual drivers out there.

[zenfiz6]

There are plenty of "Zoom! Brake! Zoom!" manual drivers out there.

Oooh! The Chicago Mazda tag line!

[daleadbull]

On the other hand, pretty much all manual drivers prefer to keep a constant pace to avoid coming to a complete stop.

Eehhhhhhhhhhh, I can't agree with that. I've ridden with many stick drivers who drive the same way as they would in an auto. And I drive an auto back and forth to work the same way as I drive a stick - leaving more space, trying not to bumper ride, etc...

You might have a higher percentage of drivers who prefer to keep a constant pace, but I can't agree with the generalization that pretty much all prefer to do that. There are plenty of "Zoom! Brake! Zoom!" manual drivers out there.

Well that's why I said "pretty much all", there are always exceptions but from my experience most manual drivers prefer not to come to a complete stop.

BTW we can't use us driving autos as an example, we know better. We should only take into consideration people who drive autos who have NEVER driven manuals, that's pretty much 90 % of all auto drivers in the US.

[Squint]

Well that's why I said "pretty much all", there are always exceptions but from my experience most manual drivers prefer not to come to a complete stop.

BTW we can't use us driving autos as an example, we know better. We should only take into consideration people who drive autos who have NEVER driven manuals, that's pretty much 90 % of all auto drivers in the US.

I think you're underestimating the number of people who have drivens manuals but don't anymore. I will agree that "us" driving autos is not the best example, but while automatics were becoming more common 30+ years ago, they still weren't the norm. My parents both have driven more than one manual (at least 3?) each but don't anymore. I know my in-laws have driven sticks but don't anymore. I would say that many of parents of my generation (aka "young" adults) certainly know how to drive one, even if they haven't in 20+ years because the cheaper cars that they used as young adults probably had manuals.

I think your percentage of of people who have never driven manuals is growing, but I don't think it's near 90% of all auto drivers in the US.

[daleadbull]

Well that's why I said "pretty much all", there are always exceptions but from my experience most manual drivers prefer not to come to a complete stop.

BTW we can't use us driving autos as an example, we know better. We should only take into consideration people who drive autos who have NEVER driven manuals, that's pretty much 90 % of all auto drivers in the US.

I think you're underestimating the number of people who have drivens manuals but don't anymore. I will agree that "us" driving autos is not the best example, but while automatics were becoming more common 30+ years ago, they still weren't the norm. My parents both have driven more than one manual (at least 3?) each but don't anymore. I know my in-laws have driven sticks but don't anymore. I would say that many of parents of my generation (aka "young" adults) certainly know how to drive one, even if they haven't in 20+ years because the cheaper cars that they used as young adults probably had manuals.

I think your percentage of of people who have never driven manuals is growing, but I don't think it's near 90% of all auto drivers in the US.

Well, I might have been exaggerating with that 90% figure but still even if people did drive manuals 20+ years ago, its not that hard to get used to the bad habit of doing the automatic brake-gas tap dance.

My own dad does this and it drives me nuts, he has driven manuals in the past but apparently forgot everything. He will accelerate to the stop sign and slam on the brakes, definitely not smooth with his inputs either but that's a different story. I think they think if they do that, they are somehow making up time. lol my brother who's never driven manuals accused me of driving like a granny because I would engine brake to a stop sign. It's just that mentality that causes traffic problems imo. People are too used to being reactive rather than proactive.

[Squint]

My own dad does this and it drives me nuts, he has driven manuals in the past but apparently forgot everything. He will accelerate to the stop sign and slam on the brakes, definitely not smooth with his inputs either but that's a different story. I think they think if they do that, they are somehow making up time. lol my brother who's never driven manuals accused me of driving like a granny because I would engine brake to a stop sign. It's just that mentality that causes traffic problems imo. People are too used to being reactive rather than proactive.

I can certainly agree with that. That would drive me bonkers. Luckily, both my parents (for the most part) still drive in a fairly relaxed, proactive style, though my mom can get a little distracted and not use her turn signal quite enough...

I get a small amount of perverse pleasure from the people that go flying away from a stoplight only to get stopped at the next one (and other similar actions - weaving through traffic to get to stop light where everyone catches them, for example).

[Shadow]

On the other hand, pretty much all manual drivers prefer to keep a constant pace to avoid coming to a complete stop. Of course this only applies on highways where there are no traffic lights or additional people merging in.

I do that no matter which car I'm driving. With a stick, it's nice to keep moving and not have to start off from a dead stop every 5 seconds, so leaving a nice gap is beneficial. With an automatic, it's also nice to keep moving instead of braking to a stop every 5 seconds. So again, I don't think it has anything to do with the equipment, but much more so the drivers.

[Shadow]

I get a small amount of perverse pleasure from the people that go flying away from a stoplight only to get stopped at the next one (and other similar actions - weaving through traffic to get to stop light where everyone catches them, for example).

I remember a Disney cartoon from years ago where Goofy was driving a car and zipping from red light to red light, going from full throttle to full braking. And there's another guy maintaining a set speed in the lane next to Goofy. The other driver's pace was perfect so that he didn't have to stop at the light because it turned green just as he approached it. He just kept motoring on at a perfect pace while Goofy took off fast, but had to stop at every light. It was funny, but it does illustrate your point.

[ClutchFork]

I get a small amount of perverse pleasure from the people that go flying away from a stoplight only to get stopped at the next one ...

That might be me zipping along. Yeah, I probably would like to get somewhere faster, but even if the slower guy catches up to me at the next light, he is laughing because he thinks I wasted my fuel, but I can laugh because I had more fun getting to that next light.

[Saabstory02]

but I can laugh because I had more fun getting to that next light.

Bingo!