RIP Paul Walker

[Shadow]

As a fan of the F&F movies (yeah, they were corny, but I'm a car guy and I love modding cars), I'm sad to hear that Paul Walker died in a car crash.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/11/30/p ... car-crash/

[AHTOXA]

Saw this today. I'm also a fan of FnF for their corny-ness. Sad he died.

[Tups]

I'm going to get some flak from this, but it's kind of ironic that a guy who inspired a whole generation of young drivers to drive recklessly crashed and burned to death because of reckless driving...

[IMBoring25]

No it isn't. It would have been ironic had he been killed in a car wreck while obeying all the traffic laws. "Ironic" is one of the most commonly misused words in the English language (and Alanis Morisette doesn't know what it is either). It means a departure from the expected outcome, and it's a fairly close antonym to the way you used it.

[Tups]

Sorry, me no speak English very bad. ;)

If a diabetic is hit by a truck, it's a normal death.
If a diabetic is hit by a sugar truck, it's an odd and tragic death.
If a diabetic is hit by an insulin truck, it's a coincidental and oddly poetic death.
But if a diabetic is on his way to get some insulin and he gets hit by an insulin truck, then that's ironic.

(George Carlin)

[Shadow]

I'm going to get some flak from this, but it's kind of ironic that a guy who inspired a whole generation of young drivers to drive recklessly crashed and burned to death because of reckless driving...

Well, he was a passenger in his friend's Porsche when they crashed and burned in the fire. Was it reckless driving? I dunno. At this point, I don't think there's enough info available....

[Tups]

Was it reckless driving? I dunno.

How often sports cars crash without recklessness being somehow involved? We had two Ferrari crashes in Helsinki this summer/autumn, and in both cases they were arsing around. Point is, no-one hit them or anything - the driver lost control. If you can't control your car, you're being reckless.

[Shadow]

No it isn't. It would have been ironic had he been killed in a car wreck while obeying all the traffic laws. "Ironic" is one of the most commonly misused words in the English language (and Alanis Morisette doesn't know what it is either). It means a departure from the expected outcome, and it's a fairly close antonym to the way you used it.

Are you suggesting that the "expected outcome" of Walker's death is that he would die in a car wreck that resulted from a car being driven recklessly? He's an actor. He's best known for playing the lead actor in the F&F movies. The fact that he died at the age of 40 in a car wreck at all is absolutely ironic. The irony is simply that he portrays a street racer in the movies and that he died in a car wreck in real life. Don't confuse the man with the actor. What he does on screen doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what he did in his real life. Anyway, here are the facts that I've heard so far:

1- Walker had been attending a charity event just before the accident occurred.
2- He was apparently a passenger in his friend's Porsche GT
3- His friend is Roger Rodas, a professional race car driver and the co-owner of Walker's business, AE Performance (a car customization shop)
4- The Porsche crashed into a tree and a pole and caught fire, burning both men.

What we don't know yet is exactly how or why the accident occurred. We also don't know for sure which man was driving, although eye witnesses claim that Walker was a passenger when the two men left the charity event being held at AE Performance. The bodies were burned to the point that they'll have to use dental records to identify them and determine which man was driving at the time of the crash.

[IMBoring25]

Well, he was a passenger in his friend's Porsche when they crashed and burned in the fire. Was it reckless driving? I dunno. At this point, I don't think there's enough info available....

Sheriff is reporting speed a factor. The local NBC affiliate's video has a clip with a guy saying, "Yeah, a bunch of these guys come out here and drift around that corner." Control was lost by a professional race car driver on dry pavement in the vicinity of a 45 zone, then the car hit a tree going sideways after apparently jumping a curb and it is now shaped almost exactly like a V and burnt to a crisp. I don't think it's a giant leap...

[Shadow]

Was it reckless driving? I dunno.

How often sports cars crash without recklessness being somehow involved? We had two Ferrari crashes in Helsinki this summer/autumn, and in both cases they were arsing around. Point is, no-one hit them or anything - the driver lost control. If you can't control your car, you're being reckless.

Like I said, we don't' know for sure. You can make all the assumptions you want, but that doesn't change the fact that we don't know if the car was being driven recklessly or not.

What if the car had some sort of mechanical failure? You know, something like a failure in the steering (a broken tie rod, for example) and he driver lost control?

What if a dog or a child unexpectedly ran out into the road and the driver crashed trying to avoid them?

What if the car ran over something in the road that caused a tire to blow out and the driver lost control of the car?

What if the driver had something wrong with him that caused him to lose consciousness and crash the car? Maybe he had a heart attack or a stroke while he was driving the car.

I could go on, but I think my point is entirely clear. Just because it was a sports car that crashed, people are quick to make assumptions that may be incorrect. There are simply too many variables at this point. I'm sure the police will perform a complete investigation. Unfortunately, we'll never know for sure what caused the accident. At least they should be able to rule out stuff like mechanical failure and determine stuff like speed at the time of the crash, but they'll never be able to rule out some of the other things I mentioned due to the fire.

[IMBoring25]

"A departure from the expected outcome," isn't really strong enough. "The opposite of the expected outcome," is closer to what the dictionary says.

As someone who is so closely identified with the culture of driving fast and racing on public roads, regardless of whether he ever actually did so himself or not, and regardless of whether he was screaming at the driver to stop and let him out the whole time (which I'm guessing is a real stretch), if you took odds on how he'd go prematurely, "Fiery car wreck following speeding," would be pretty short odds among people familiar with his movies, even if he's personally given the benefit of the doubt.

This is tragic, yes. Coincidental, yes. Ironic, no. Ironic would be getting run over by a speeding 85-year-old woman while obstructing left-lane traffic.

[Shadow]

The local NBC affiliate's video has a clip with a guy saying, "Yeah, a bunch of these guys come out here and drift around that corner."

And you just gave me one more idea to add to the others:

What if an oncoming car or motorcycle wasn't able to hold its line and crossed over the double yellow line on that corner and the Porsche driver had to avoid him? You know, since people "drift around that corner", it's not exactly crazy to think that could have happened.

Kinda like the crappy driving in this video. Is it possible that Rodas and Walker encountered someone else driving recklessly and were just trying to avoid a collision? Is that out of the realm of possibility?

[tankinbeans]

I know I'm about to get flamed for this, but isn't it sad when anybody dies? The only reason he is getting any attention at all is that he was a highly paid actor whose name most people knew or had heard of, and that he died in a manner that could easily have found itself in the plot of one of the movies he acted in.

Am I sad that he died? Yes, in the same way that I am sad for other people whose family members die. Is it something that I'm going to obsess over? No.

[Shadow]

"A departure from the expected outcome," isn't really strong enough. "The opposite of the expected outcome," is closer to what the dictionary says.

As someone who is so closely identified with the culture of driving fast and racing on public roads, regardless of whether he ever actually did so himself or not, and regardless of whether he was screaming at the driver to stop and let him out the whole time (which I'm guessing is a real stretch), if you took odds on how he'd go prematurely, "Fiery car wreck following speeding," would be pretty short odds among people familiar with his movies, even if he's personally given the benefit of the doubt.

This is tragic, yes. Coincidental, yes. Ironic, no. Ironic would be getting run over by a speeding 85-year-old woman while obstructing left-lane traffic.

LOL, I don't even know where to start. You're so far off the mark here....

Here's a classic example of irony:

A guy dies of lung cancer at the age of 40, despite the fact that he never smoked in his life. Why is that ironic? Well, because lung cancer is closely associated with smoking and this guy obviously didn't smoke. Plus, he died prematurely from a disease that doesn't typically affect non-smokers.

Now lets rethink Walker's death. Putting all assumptions about the crash aside (you know, since we really don't know all the facts yet), what we have here is a 40-year-old actor that was best known for a series of movies depicting illegal and unsafe street racing. He happened to die in a fiery car crash that involved a sports car crashing on the street. Why is that ironic? Well, because street racing/speeding is closely associated with car crashes and Walker portrayed a street racer in the movies. That's the irony. It's not just a coincidence, it's ironic. Of all the ways that someone can die prematurely, a guy who portrayed a street racer in the movies died in a car crash. You want to talk odds? Okay, fine. I'd guess that of all the ways a young, healthy guy can die prematurely, a car accident has to be near the top of the list. But that doesn't change the fact that Walker was an actor who portrayed a street racer in the movies and he died in a car crash in real life. Now if Walker had a reputation for being a reckless driver in real life and he ended up dying in a car crash, I'd say that most people wouldn't be surprised. People might even say it was expected. But that's not the case here.....like I said before, don't confuse the man with the actor. To suggest that Walker would die in a fiery car crash is the "expected" outcome is just silly.

[Shadow]

I know I'm about to get flamed for this, but isn't it sad when anybody dies? The only reason he is getting any attention at all is that he was a highly paid actor whose name most people knew or had heard of, and that he died in a manner that could easily have found itself in the plot of one of the movies he acted in.

Am I sad that he died? Yes, in the same way that I am sad for other people whose family members die. Is it something that I'm going to obsess over? No.

No flames. Of course you're correct....it's a sad thing when anyone dies. But when someone famous dies, it obviously affects a much larger number of people, even if we didn't know them personally. If my neighbor Joe dies tomorrow, I'll be sad. You don't know Joe, so his death means nothing to you......and you wouldn't even know he died.