Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Off-topic posts, quotes of the day and anything else you just would like to vent to the world. PG-13 or below PLEASE!
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Image
The proposed settlement covers about 1.5 million Tacoma compact pickups, Tundra full-size pickups and Sequoia SUVs alleged to have received inadequate rust protection that could lead to corrosion serious enough to jeopardize their structural integrity, according to court papers.

Attorneys for the plaintiffs in court papers supporting the settlement estimated the value of frame replacements at about $3.375 billion based on a cost of about $15,000 per vehicle and the inspections at about $90 million at $60 per vehicle.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyot ... SKBN1370PE
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 16021
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by theholycow »

Toy Yoda had a recall (not sure if voluntary or resulting from a lawsuit) like that for earlier trucks, including the 2002 Tundra that my dad bought new (and which now is in my yard waiting for me to fix and sell it). They did tons of buybacks, frame replacements, and frame treatments (looks like POR15 on steroids). I guess $3.4 billion is less than the cost of just building them better. Same attitude must be why they kept mismanufacturing ball joints and paying to repair trucks mangled in crashes after the damned things catastrophically failed, causing the wheel to fold under at speed...after issuing repeated recalls for them.

Anyway, why are there not similar rust class actions against other manufacturers who also used garbage pot metal for their frames?
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Yanno,....Rust Never Sleeps

It's all about where you operate the vehicle and the duty cycle you put it through.

I remember Ford had some oiling problems on inline 4 & 6 cylinder engines that primarily showed up in cold climate areas...which are also the areas where they tend to salt the roads in the winter, so it is the rust belt too, to a great extent.

Like structural rust, these engine failures due to insufficient lubrication didn't show up in short-duration accelerated testing that the automakers typically perform. Real drivers go thru a lot more distinct operating cycles, rather than 4-hour stints of solid driving that might occur 4 or 6 times a day. Vehicle owners cold start more often, they ride 'em hard and put 'em away wet more often, and they park them in enclosed garages for 8-14 hours. This results in spikes in underhood temperatures and long periods of elevated temperatures than for the bodies and chassis that favor corrosion more than parking outdoors would. It's not that they chose to build them knowing that they would fail to meet customer's expectations, it's more like their testing didn't replicate real-life vehicle usage and they never saw it coming when customers started having issues.

Remember the early news reports of the Takata airbag deployment explosions? The areas where they considered vehicle operation most likely to have a climatic exposure that could result in the shrapnel expulsion during airbag inflation were the areas where structural rusting or cold engine lubrication issues were NOT expected to occur.

In some of these cases, the vehicle manufacturers choose to limit their expenses by only recalling vehicles registered in the areas where the climatic effects are likely to provoke the issues. Who's to say that the next year you won't move to another area of the country and put your vehicle in jeopardy of engine failure, structural rust or excessively enthusiastic airbag deployment?
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

....and don't even get me started on premature ball joint failures!

I blame them squarely on pre-lubed parts....lubed "for life" by the ball joint manufacturer and with no provisions for lubrication in service.

Everyone crowed how they could seal tighter, because they never would need to bleed out old lube. Truth is, the grease and seals get cooked by heat from the brakes and contamination still gets in there, dirt and water usually.....but never gets flushed out and the grease cooks down to a tar-like substance and then everyone wonders why the ball joints fail. Another case where accelerated testing didn't match customer usage closely enough. Now that 200,000 miles is the new 100,000 miles, and the average vehicle is 11.4 years old, more of these issues seem to come up.

In days of yore, I've seen rusty water squirt out of ball joints and tie rod end joints as they were relubed, but if you relubed them twice a year they didn't seem to go bad......maybe I should write to Trump about this!
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 16021
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by theholycow »

Accelerated testing shortcomings I understand, but when there is real world experience with people in danger and huge followup costs I would expect someone who wants to stop the bleeding to say "HEY! This is crazy, let's go back to a better steel like GM used in 1980 and ball joint designs that don't do this to us".

On the ball joint issue, Toyota's was more than just the sealed ball joint issue. The repeated recalls indicated that there was a scratch that damaged them during manufacturing.

Additionally, however, I've read that it is more common to use a fail-safe design, with which you'd just pull over (with a wobbly but rolling wheel) and call a tow truck if the ball joint failed instead of having the wheel folder under or break off (and ROLL under, throwing the vehicle into a rollover situation). I don't know front ends that well so I can't remember quite what I read.

Also contributing, it seems Toyota didn't expect people to use the Tundra as a truck, so it wasn't built for the constant loading applied to it by some people. I can't blame them for that; they meant it for office commuters and people hauling a bicycle to the trail. More recently they sent engineers on ride-alongs with ranchers and roofers to see how trucks get used and learn how to build for that market, so they're trying with regards to that issue (and I understand the more recent generation is heavier and tougher).
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

theholycow wrote: Also contributing, it seems Toyota didn't expect people to use the Tundra as a truck, so it wasn't built for the constant loading applied to it by some people. I can't blame them for that; they meant it for office commuters and people hauling a bicycle to the trail. More recently they sent engineers on ride-alongs with ranchers and roofers to see how trucks get used and learn how to build for that market, so they're trying with regards to that issue (and I understand the more recent generation is heavier and tougher).
Heil tell Hugh, during the DamnliarChrysler daze, the Damnliar guys thought their A580 RWD Slushbox was ready for use in the Ram pick-m-ups and we had to show them by our Dyno and endurance vehicle testing that the design needed further development before use in trucks. There is more to it than designing for peak torque. The amount of time spent at significant torque levels for each gear range must be considered as well, among other things, like the maximum torque that can be transmitted through the tires on a fully-loaded truck in 4WD.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
watkins
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15880
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:42 am
Cars: '08 Saab 9-5 Aero wagon
Location: Salem, MA

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by watkins »

theholycow wrote:Also contributing, it seems Toyota didn't expect people to use the Tundra as a truck, so it wasn't built for the constant loading applied to it by some people.
It looks like a truck, smells like a truck, rides like a truck, and even tastes like a truck, but we built it like a Yugo!
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

...and another thing : rural areas tend to have dirt roads. Dirt forms a wet, abrasive paste that causes wear and corrosion, leading to issues that don't show up in " sitty slicker" vehicles until years later. Testing out in the southwest might not show the issues due to the dry climate, but even testing in wet climates might not catch the issues if it is done during the wrong season or too accelerated in time for the corrosion issues to show their ugly faces.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Whose Head "Nothing in Life is Nude"?

166,000 North American Nissans recalled for ignition switch issue

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPXHRX8Q2hs[/youtube]
A spring in the ignition switch can wear and cause problems


https://www.autoblog.com/2018/08/30/nis ... h-america/

Another reminder to take your bowling ball off your car key fob.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Subaru recalls 30,600 Legacys, Outbacks for faulty electronic parking brake

Subaru is recalling certain 2010-14 Legacy and Outback models equipped only with a manual transmission for a potentially faulty electronic parking brake.
According to a safety recall report posted on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website, a capacitor on the circuit board and/or the actuator stroke sensor magnetic ring, which is in the control unit of the electronic parking brake, may crack over time.

If either component cracks, the brake warning lamp lights up, but the parking brake may not engage. If the transmission "is not in the recommended gear when the vehicle is parked and the emergency brake does not engage, the vehicle could roll away," the report says.

The recall covers Legacy models built between Dec. 10, 2008, and May 19, 2014, and Outback models produced between March 16, 2009, and June 2, 2014. Both models are manufactured at Subaru's Indiana plant.

Continental is the component supplier, the safety report indicates.
http://canada.autonews.com/article/2018 ... nada-daily

I didn't see any explanation of why they were picking on the Amish. Could be a different control board, or it could be there is some other reason the Amish present more of a liability risk for the same failure.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by tankinbeans »

I'm guessing it's specifically for the Amish because there are those who, for some reason I can't grok, park out of gear and rely entirely on the parking brake. Those in autos, at least the people I know, don't engage them enough to even notice.

In my car the electric parking brakes whirrs a bit, the light comes on, and the brake pedal depresses.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

tankinbeans wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:31 pm I'm guessing it's specifically for the Amish because there are those who, for some reason I can't grok, park out of gear and rely entirely on the parking brake. Those in autos, at least the people I know, don't engage them enough to even notice.

In my car the electric parking brakes whirrs a bit, the light comes on, and the brake pedal depresses.
Don't let that brake pedal get you depressed
Image.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
IMBoring25
Moderator
Posts: 3418
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: OK, USA

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by IMBoring25 »

Might be a different control board if they saw fit to implement a hill-holder only with one transmission. Might also be that they don't think it rises to the level of a safety issue if you have a park pawl.
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by Rope-Pusher »

'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: Seams Tummy Eye Dew Recall.....

Post by ClutchFork »

When it comes to automatic transmisisons, the least obtrusive selector the better. Since the selector does not actively function to drive the car, why have a big nasty lever sticking up between the seats (unless one wants to think they are cool, when at best they are a poser). No, Chrysler had it right. My first car was a 64 Dodge Dart with an automatic and the selector looked like this and was nicely out of the way. That lever to the left of the buttons was to put the transmission in park.
Image


Why waste all this space between the seats for a silly giant lever that is only to select a mode? The size of that lever suggests you need a lot of leverage to move it. Ha. How silly consumer preferences are.
Image
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
Post Reply