They've taken all the fun out of driving!

[ClutchFork]

While a stick shift is certainly fun. With all this stuff added to the car, it sure detracts from the fun:Clickable diagram of all the electronic baggage cars carry these days
For example, what fun is electronic stability control? Eventually people will not know how to control a car when traction breaks. Same for computers and hand held calculators. How many can do math on paper anymore--or in their heads? When this electronic stuff starts malfunctioning, look out (not to mention that the potential for hackers messing with your car while you drive).

[Squint]

A giant chunk of all of these are safety features and a decent chunk of all of these don't exist on your average car. Let's go through some of them. Bold titles means the parts refer to safety/increased durability/performance - which is undeniably good.

Accident recorder (similar but not to be confused with Event Data Recorders): it can only help. Unless you are a jerk who lies to police and other involved people to avoid getting in trouble for something you did.

Active Cabin/Exhaust Noise Suppression: don't exist on most vehicles. There are pros and cons to them, but I would say these could be lumped in with your "extra unnecessary electronics" that you like to throw around.

Active suspension: good for the passengers and the vehicle. Less wear and tear on everyone and everything involved.

Active Vibration Control: similar to active suspension but for enginer/transmission vibration. Not on any vehicles yet.

Active Yaw Controls: only on Mitsubishi, but similar to stability control minus using the brakes. It aims to increase cornering speed and performance. Not a bad thing.

Adaptive cruise control: Acts as standard cruise control but automatically slows the vehicle to keep safe distances and alerts the driver if distances close too quickly. A fantastic safety invention for distracted drivers to help the rest of us not get a car up the backside. Since nearly 29% of all accidents are rear end collisions, this can only help.

Adaptive Front Lighting: covers leveling and cornering so it is a bit of a broad title. Keeps you from being blinded and keeps people seeing more on the road. A good safety feature.

Airbags: I seriously hope you don't think you are safer without airbags. I shouldn't need to say more.

ABS: prevents wheel lockup and does it far faster than a driver can pump the break pedal. A good safety feature.

Auto-dimming mirrors: tries to keep you from being blinded by vehicles behind you in low light situations. A very helpful safety feature.

This is only roughly 1/5th of the items listed, I'm hoping you click through the whole list yourself.

Several of the things listed aren't on any cars yet so you can't count those(like the aforementioned Vibration Control). There are several things that are for comfort rather than safety like auto adjusting seats and climate control. Sure, do without those. But since the majority of these things exist for safety and to make your vehicle more efficient/durable, why would you want to avoid them?

[Squint]

I feel I should add on to this. I'm all for simple things for the most part. I eat fairly simply, we buy simple toys for my son, and try to live fairly simply. However, technology isn't inherently a bad thing.

People already don't know how to recover traction when it breaks which is why the technology was invented. Just listen to the radio on a rainy/icy day and hear how many more accidents there are when road conditions aren't "normal."

I don't even know how to respond to that hackers comment. Yes, it is physically a possibility. But if your distrust of technology is that high, don't use banks, don't use computers, don't buy anything online, don't use a smartphone, don't use credit cards, don't fly in an airplane... the list goes on.

[Mcs1990]

I actually think it's for the better. As mentioned before, lots of these aids are thrown in for safety measures. Everyone on this forum loves driving and thinks of their car as more than just a object to get from A to B. However, the majority of people who drive really just use a car for transportation purposes. I rather give these people some extra aid driving. There are still plenty of purist and enthusiast cars we can buy that won't be driving simulators. Plus we can turn off or ignore many of these electronic aids.

And to touch on the topic of stability control...Stability control is a great feature for the 99% of drivers who don't understand cars and physics. If you are activating it on the street, you are driving way too fast for the conditions. I can't even describe what it takes to activate it in my car. I only drive with it off if I intentionally want the back end coming around under braking. At 8/10ths driving, I like the safety barrier.

[AHTOXA]

I don't get the tech hate. Not at all.

[Squint]

I don't get the tech hate. Not at all.

I can understand people wanting simplicity. I can understand not wanting to bother with some of the "extras" like auto climate control versus standard knobs or auto adjusting seats or whatever... But I don't really understand the people that want the choice to avoid airbags or ABS or Stability Control. If they have been shown to help 9 times out of 10, wouldn't you rather risk that than the 10% of the time it is useful/might hurt the situation?

I had a discussion with a friend at work who apparently hates seat belts. He wears them, but thinks that because it would only hurt himself to not wear it, it shouldn't be required by law. I'm baffled by the thought that he says they are uncomfortable. I don't even realize I'm wearing one 99% of the time.

[monkeyhunk]

I don't get the tech hate. Not at all.

I can understand people wanting simplicity. I can understand not wanting to bother with some of the "extras" like auto climate control versus standard knobs or auto adjusting seats or whatever... But I don't really understand the people that want the choice to avoid airbags or ABS or Stability Control. If they have been shown to help 9 times out of 10, wouldn't you rather risk that than the 10% of the time it is useful/might hurt the situation?

I had a discussion with a friend at work who apparently hates seat belts. He wears them, but thinks that because it would only hurt himself to not wear it, it shouldn't be required by law. I'm baffled by the thought that he says they are uncomfortable. I don't even realize I'm wearing one 99% of the time.

I can sort of see that. I'm guessing you didn't drive very much before it became law everywhere and not too many people write them at all. I got nailed a time or two when that law first came about.

[Shadow]

While a stick shift is certainly fun. With all this stuff added to the car, it sure detracts from the fun:Clickable diagram of all the electronic baggage cars carry these days
For example, what fun is electronic stability control?

Most cars come with a button on the dash that defeats the stability control system. Problem solved.

The only caveat is that on some cars, disabling it doesn't always fully disable it, but instead allows the car to get more out of control before it kicks in.

[Shadow]

I don't get the tech hate. Not at all.

It's really only a handful of people on the forum. They are most definitely in the minority. I think most people appreciate the tech, if not totally embracing it. I think some people get upset when they are forced to live with technology that can't be turned off. For example, stability assist that can be turned off (as mentioned earlier) compared with non-defeatable stability assist.

Remember when we first heard about manual transmission cars that automatically rev-match on downshifts? Well, it turns out that the feature can be turned off. Once I heard that, I thought it was a great feature. There when you want it, and gone when you don't. Just one example of not hating tech....

[theholycow]

And to touch on the topic of stability control...Stability control is a great feature for the 99% of drivers who don't understand cars and physics. If you are activating it on the street, you are driving way too fast for the conditions.

Bingo. Also, it's inexpensive and AFAIK it's usually easily disabled. There may be plenty of gratuitous tech found on the market, but IMO this one is inoffensive, probably overall a good thing, and as long as I could turn it off I'd not be likely to kvetch.

Squint, I agree with your general point but not all of your specific ones...

Adaptive cruise control: Acts as standard cruise control but automatically slows the vehicle to keep safe distances and alerts the driver if distances close too quickly. A fantastic safety invention for distracted drivers to help the rest of us not get a car up the backside. Since nearly 29% of all accidents are rear end collisions, this can only help.

This is not a safety feature, it is a convenience/luxury feature. I bet 99.9% of those rear end collisions are not in situations where cruise can even be used, let alone actually involve cruise. Anyway, it's a feature I'd really like, assuming it can be set to a following distance that meets my abnormally far standards.

Accident recorder: AKA Big Brother. I am not a jerk who lies and I don't intend to be, but I rather dislike Big Brother. Can it be disabled like stability control?

Active Cabin/Exhaust Noise Suppression: Not bad. Surely easily disabled, and it's $5 technology (though perhaps they charge more for it). I enjoy a quiet ride but noise canceling sometimes irritates my ears (earittate?).

Active suspension: Mixed emotions. I'd like it if I could program it and maybe have a manual mode, until I had to pay for it or repair it...

Adaptive Front Lighting: Anything that reduces the glare that I receive should be goddamn mandatory on everybody else's vehicle. (Tongue-in-cheek, but based on how I really feel. In reality my value of freedom of choice overrides my value of not being fscking blinded.)

ABS: Does something that is very useful and is completely impossible for a human to do. A human can pump the brakes, but nowhere near like ABS can, and ABS knows exactly when to do it. I like to imagine that some day I'll install the ABS from a newer B-body on my car. I think it is feasible, specifically on B-bodies, because GM was so consistent in design and manufacturing in that series.

Stability control also does something that humans can't do. While some humans can detect minute losses of traction, they can't brake individual wheels.

Auto-dimming mirrors: In theory, that's a great feature. In reality they don't always dim when I want them to, don't always un-dim when I want them to, etc. It's an unnecessary and too-flawed automation, at least for me. It's like a slushbox that's always in the wrong gear and doesn't have any manual controls. I wish I had a compass/temp mirror with manual dimming, and some day I'll hack mine with a switch.

Auto climate control: Great if I'm on a 6 hour trip. For just an hour, I don't want a specific ambient indoor temperature, I want to be blasted in the face or feet or windshield with extreme hot or cold.

Seat belts: I hate not wearing a seat belt. I hate when it ratchets out and is slightly loose. I wish I could modify mine to never ratchet out, just always pull tight to me. That said, freedom of choice is important...it's my opinion that people should choose. Yes, I know my insurance/tax dollars will pay for the extra medical care required, but that's a price I'm willing to pay (and come on, you know how broke I am!).

[theholycow]

I'm bored, let's talk more details.

Electronic throttle control: Experience has left me soured on this one.

Electronic power steering: Experience has left me very impressed and I want it for my car.

Automatic braking: The idea scares the bejeebus outta me.

Parental controls: Hey, neato.

Rain-sensor controlled wipers: I can only imagine that they would fail to be satisfactory for me in the same way that automatic dimming mirrors and automatic headlights are. I want things on only when I've commanded them on.

Night vision: Neato.

Heads-up display: I've played with HUD using an Android speedometer app, was kinda neato.

Driver alertness monitoring: I have to admit, sometimes the road makes me sleepy even when I was fully alert at the beginning. I wonder if a system like this would be great or awful.

Advanced instrument clusters: There is no such thing as too much data. MOAR GAUGES!

Smartass interior lighting controls: Sounds dreadful.

Onstar and whatnot: Inflames my tinfoil hat.

DSRC: Uh, what? So many things in this description.

Entertainment systems: It should not be necessary to operate a touchscreen while driving. As long as tactile controls are available, gimme some mo.

Battery manglement: Has saved me from needing a jumpstart before.

Lane Keeping Assist: OH GOD NO. If I want to wander around my lane like a jackass, it's my God given right to do so without the computer steering for me...especially if I'm avoiding something that the computer can't see.

Electronic toll collection: Some jerk's fastpass is broken and his plate is similar to my wife's so my wife keeps getting his tickets in the mail. Not happy.

Digital turn signals: Sounds neato.

Navigation: I dislike the price that auto manufacturers charge for it, plus I don't want to buy one for each vehicle I own...I can only drive on at a time.

Security system: Usually worthless.

Hill-hold: Unnecessary.

Regenerative braking: Good stuff, where practical.

TPMS: Let's not have another Firestone/Ford thing.

Parking systems: I guess I'm abnormally skilled at parking. I can squeeze anything into any spot without struggling. Just ask my wife! Optional for folks who need it? Ok.

Seat position control: Give me manual controls for fore/aft and recline, electric ones are so slow (and if they were faster they'd be hard to control). Then give me a thousand other adjustments, which can all be electric. I'll be one happy driver.

Transmission control: Should consist of a clutch pedal and an H-pattern shift lever mechanically linked to the transmission.

Lane departure warning: Didn't we already cover this one? This time, it's just without the uto-steering?

Blind spot detection: Costs $1 and the technology has been around for almost as long as cars have. Adhesive-backed blind spot mirrors are effective. Nothing more is necessary.

Remote keyless entry: Planned upgrade for my car. Tired of my frozen locks in the winter.

OBDII: As a nerd, I love when a machine can tell me what's wrong. Did I mention I'm a data junkie?

Cylinder deactivation: Pretty sure I'm the only person on an automotive forum who would not hate this.

Idle stop/start: It'll need an analog clutch switch to work for me.

Electronic valve timing: Cool beans.

[tankinbeans]

Squint, I can't tell when I am wearing a seatbelt, but I can certainly tell when I'm NOT wearing a seatbelt.

Must be that pesky near death thing when I was 4 that has me hyper about seatbelts (properly functioning and not twisted).

As to the rest of the list, I don't get hyper about these one easy or the other. I've started using the auto climate in Olie and don't have an opinion one way or the other. I know that I don't know everything about driving and am willing to accept help.

My philosophy is to avoid needing to do emergency maneuvers if possible. I'm not comfortable breaking lose on city streets and don't want something bad to happen if I lose it. I'd take more risks to teach myself handling techniques if I were in a controlled environment where I could get myself turned around without hitting someone (read: driving course or track - not for racing).

[IMBoring25]

I'm bored, let's talk more details.

Bring it.

Electronic throttle control: Experience has left me soured on this one.

Harley's is good. No throttle hang, imperceptible response time. Most I've dealt with are not like that.

Automatic braking: The idea scares the bejeebus outta me.

I definitely have significant misgivings. There are times when I might want to hit an animal or debris in the road if there's a tailgating cement truck behind me. Then there are times it makes more sense to swerve. If the car takes it upon itself to do a maximum-effort braking event, it will unsettle the car and there will be no traction left for the swerve. Finally, I'm not sure how such a system would work in adverse conditions like slick roads. If I overbrake my truck on ice it overwhelms the capability of the ABS and it goes into a four-wheel slide. So if the car automatically brakes itself in a situation where there's so little traction the ABS doesn't work correctly, it seems like that would kill the steering too.

On the other hand, we just had two people killed near here from a speeding DUI driving through their vehicle at a traffic light. It's a tricky issue.

Rain-sensor controlled wipers: I can only imagine that they would fail to be satisfactory for me in the same way that automatic dimming mirrors and automatic headlights are. I want things on only when I've commanded them on.

Shadow reports his operate precisely when he would want them operated, without the necessity of manual intervention. If they're all that good I don't know.

DSRC: Uh, what? So many things in this description.

Basically car-to-car and road-to-car wifi. Other cars and the road itself would have the ability to dynamically activate electronic warnings in the car of hazards, for instance.

Lane departure warning: Didn't we already cover this one? This time, it's just without the uto-steering?

The passive system is a major distinction...It doesn't actually change the motion of the vehicle, just warns you that you might be about to do something stupid.

Cylinder deactivation: Pretty sure I'm the only person on an automotive forum who would not hate this.

With electronics already running things, this is basically free. As long as it doesn't impact driveability (including in adverse conditions) or durability, I'm OK with it. The bike has this feature (subject to a number of conditions) to keep the rear cylinder cool at red lights. I have the deactivation enabled and can defeat it in real time when desired by holding a little throttle in.

My philosophy is to avoid needing to do emergency maneuvers if possible. I'm not comfortable breaking lose on city streets and don't want something bad to happen if I lose it. I'd take more risks to teach myself handling techniques if I were in a controlled environment where I could get myself turned around without hitting someone (read: driving course or track - not for racing).

There's an old saying..."A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid needing to use his superior skill." The same can be said for driving. It takes both halves of the equation because there are so many variables on the public roads, especially other people. Judgment alone will serve you well, including keeping you out of a lot of accidents that other people would say there was no way to avoid, but things will happen that only skill and reaction time will mitigate (and there are times that even that runs out).

[six]

Driving is only fun to us. To the rest of the people out there, driving is a necessary evil or a chore. We can drive fun cars and be done with it. Let the electronic doodads keep the other people safer around me, and I'm gravy.

[tankinbeans]

Judgment alone will serve you well, including keeping you out of a lot of accidents that other people would say there was no way to avoid, but things will happen that only skill and reaction time will mitigate (and there are times that even that runs out).

I guess what I mean is that I generally know how to get myself out of trouble, but I don't actively try to get myself into trouble. That's best left for controlled situations and not on the street, in my opinion anyway.

I love driving and always have, but I recognize where my weaknesses are and play around a little bit to build upon them when there's little risk of damage or injury to others or me. For instance, I'm not interested in "whipping donuts" in a parking lot with the Blazer, as my friend seems to advocate, because I know that the Blazer is top heavy and it likely wouldn't take much to cause it to go tits up. However, if I were in a low-slung, rear-drive saloon, I'd likely do more to learn how to do the fun stuff. There is nothing inherently fun about driving a ponderous SUV, even a midsize one such as Olie.