When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Off-topic posts, quotes of the day and anything else you just would like to vent to the world. PG-13 or below PLEASE!
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by ClutchFork »

Well if some time in the future, ground transportation is abandoned for "The Jetsons" type space cars, then I guess a stick shifted internal combustion engined car would be obsolete along with automatic transmissioned internal combustion engined cars. Short of that, if they go all electric by government mandate (not unrealistic in the longer term picture) so that only collector cars remain of the internal combustion variety, then stick shifts and all transmissions will be obsolete since they don't need a transmission in an electric car. I am sure ClutchDisc will have a collector car at such time. I don't think I wlll see that day though.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by tankinbeans »

His future car will be powered by hay and Oates.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image
User avatar
six
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4674
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:45 pm
Cars: 2015 Chevrolet SS 6MT
Location: California, U.S.

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by six »

Shadow wrote:But either way, electric cars simply aren't nearly as popular in the northeast. We have cold weather here. Cold weather means heaters need to run. And heaters running means less range to propel the car. Someone with a 70-mile range in a Leaf would have a serious case of range anxiety trying to get to work and back home on a single charge on a dark winter day if he she lives more than 25 miles from work.
You bring up a good point... I need to do some research on this, but would you happen to know how an electric car is heated? Would it be like a space heater at home? That takes a whole lot of electricity. ICE cars (hehe) naturally create heat, so running the heater is merely as simple as running a blower to blow that hot air into the cabin. An electric car has no such ability.
Image
2015 Heron White Chevrolet SS Sedan 6MT
User avatar
ClutchFork
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm
Cars: 2008 Fusion 2.3L manual
Location: Detroit MI

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by ClutchFork »

six wrote:I need to do some research on this, but would you happen to know how an electric car is heated?
Canned Heat?

Image
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
kevinf
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:39 am
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by kevinf »

six wrote:
Shadow wrote:But either way, electric cars simply aren't nearly as popular in the northeast. We have cold weather here. Cold weather means heaters need to run. And heaters running means less range to propel the car. Someone with a 70-mile range in a Leaf would have a serious case of range anxiety trying to get to work and back home on a single charge on a dark winter day if he she lives more than 25 miles from work.
You bring up a good point... I need to do some research on this, but would you happen to know how an electric car is heated? Would it be like a space heater at home? That takes a whole lot of electricity. ICE cars (hehe) naturally create heat, so running the heater is merely as simple as running a blower to blow that hot air into the cabin. An electric car has no such ability.
The requirement for resistive heating power is a small fraction compared to the energy expenditure of moving a 5500lb vehicle at 65mph for hours on end. The nice thing is that you get immediate heat in cold weather. It will make a difference, but you'll generally only be using the heater on high for a few minutes and then set it to low once the cabin is a reasonable temperature.

Here's a cartoonists take on the Tesla Model S: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
User avatar
Squint
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3390
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: KY

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Squint »

kevinf wrote:The requirement for resistive heating power is a small fraction compared to the energy expenditure of moving a 5500lb vehicle at 65mph for hours on end. The nice thing is that you get immediate heat in cold weather. It will make a difference, but you'll generally only be using the heater on high for a few minutes and then set it to low once the cabin is a reasonable temperature.

Here's a cartoonists take on the Tesla Model S: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
Apparently I need to drop out of the engineering school that I just started again and be a cartoonist. Who knew a cartoonist could afford a Tesla??
'15 Mazda 3 iSport Hatch 6MT
'11 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE 5MT
'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
'97 Honda Civic EX 4AT - Retired @ 184,001 mi

For Pony!
User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3384
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Shadow »

Squint wrote:
I didn't immediately find anything more recent than 2012 numbers, feel free to correct me if there is newer data to be had. I do know that the small cars listed above (and others) have manual take rates much higher than the national average. The Ford focus has a manual take rate between 12-13%, for example.
The FR-S and BRZ buyers are also big on manuals. Last time I checked, the take rate is somewhere around 50% or more for manuals. It's a good sign....
Image
User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3384
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Shadow »

six wrote:
Shadow wrote:But either way, electric cars simply aren't nearly as popular in the northeast. We have cold weather here. Cold weather means heaters need to run. And heaters running means less range to propel the car. Someone with a 70-mile range in a Leaf would have a serious case of range anxiety trying to get to work and back home on a single charge on a dark winter day if he she lives more than 25 miles from work.
You bring up a good point... I need to do some research on this, but would you happen to know how an electric car is heated? Would it be like a space heater at home? That takes a whole lot of electricity. ICE cars (hehe) naturally create heat, so running the heater is merely as simple as running a blower to blow that hot air into the cabin. An electric car has no such ability.

I haven't done any research on it, but I'm fairly certain that electric cars do use some sort of "space heater" type system to heat the cabin. I do remember reading a blog post from a Leaf owner on how he would just dress warm and use the heated seats and I think a heated steering wheel to stay warm in the winter instead of using the heater, which obviously kills his range.
Image
User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3384
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Shadow »

kevinf wrote:
The requirement for resistive heating power is a small fraction compared to the energy expenditure of moving a 5500lb vehicle at 65mph for hours on end.
You're ignoring the fact that heat is simply a byproduct of internal combustion and is therefore "free" for all intents and purposes. To heat the cabin of an electric car, you're using the same power source that propels the car. It's never "free" in any sense. Of course most electric cars let you preheat the cabin while the car is parked and plugged in. That's a good thing, but on a cold winter day here in NY, you need to keep the heat flowing while you're driving too. I once drove a car with a clogged heater core in a snow & ice storm and I had no choice but to stop after a while because the moisture on the glass turned to ice, killing my visibility. Yes, I needed some heat! LOL :lol:
Image
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

InlinePaul wrote:
six wrote:I need to do some research on this, but would you happen to know how an electric car is heated?


Canned Heat?
Fickset
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

A heat pump is a more efficient way to warm the vehicle & demist the glass, but only when the temperatures are "Moderate". The colder it gets, the harder it is to extract heat from the air at a temperature that is useful to you. By the time you get to snow-n-ice weather, it's prolly time to just use resistance heating to defrost the glass and your toes.

Seams tummy, bat trees get warm when charging and when discharging, but I don't know how munch heat we're talking about and if it's availability matches the demand for heat. Could be that below freezing it's best to let the batteries warm themselves so their effective charge goes up than to try to steal as much heat from the batteries as you can get.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Oh, and head lice too!

Drivers in the Northeast (and a lot of other North places) find they have to run their headlights going to work as well as coming home, due to the short daylight owers.

Yeah, we can debate about how much those LED headlamps use compared to incandescent bulbs, but they are being engineered for range too, not optimized just for low energy usage.

Oh, and hominy watts is that defroster /cabin heater blower motor using - about as much as the rear window defroster grid?

Andure tyres, the rolling resistance is higher when they're cold.

Up Nort ain't the optimum place to own / drive an eclectic vehicle.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
User avatar
Shadow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3384
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:51 am
Location: New York

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by Shadow »

Rope-Pusher wrote:
Up Nort ain't the optimum place to own / drive an eclectic vehicle.
Which is exactly why we don't see many of them around here. I see a Leaf every once in a while. I also see a Tesla once in a blue moon.

And in the winter, it seems that SUVs still rule.....as they come out in droves. Same is true for me.....my 4Runner doesn't see a lot of drive time now, but it will for sure once the white stuff starts falling.
Image
User avatar
six
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4674
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:45 pm
Cars: 2015 Chevrolet SS 6MT
Location: California, U.S.

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by six »

kevinf wrote:
six wrote:
Shadow wrote:But either way, electric cars simply aren't nearly as popular in the northeast. We have cold weather here. Cold weather means heaters need to run. And heaters running means less range to propel the car. Someone with a 70-mile range in a Leaf would have a serious case of range anxiety trying to get to work and back home on a single charge on a dark winter day if he she lives more than 25 miles from work.
You bring up a good point... I need to do some research on this, but would you happen to know how an electric car is heated? Would it be like a space heater at home? That takes a whole lot of electricity. ICE cars (hehe) naturally create heat, so running the heater is merely as simple as running a blower to blow that hot air into the cabin. An electric car has no such ability.
The requirement for resistive heating power is a small fraction compared to the energy expenditure of moving a 5500lb vehicle at 65mph for hours on end. The nice thing is that you get immediate heat in cold weather. It will make a difference, but you'll generally only be using the heater on high for a few minutes and then set it to low once the cabin is a reasonable temperature.

Here's a cartoonists take on the Tesla Model S: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
That's a great comic! And I can attest to everything he says. However, I would never own a Tesla no matter how great it is (it's a fantastic piece of machinery, I can tell you that)... Why??? Because it DOESN'T HAVE A STICK. Plane and simpo. Which, of course, brings this topic back... on topic. :wink:
Image
2015 Heron White Chevrolet SS Sedan 6MT
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6 To, 18 Mazda3 i
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: When (if ever) is it time to give up driving stick?

Post by tankinbeans »

Shadow wrote:
Rope-Pusher wrote:
Up Nort ain't the optimum place to own / drive an eclectic vehicle.
Which is exactly why we don't see many of them around here. I see a Leaf every once in a while. I also see a Tesla once in a blue moon.

And in the winter, it seems that SUVs still rule.....as they come out in droves. Same is true for me.....my 4Runner doesn't see a lot of drive time now, but it will for sure once the white stuff starts falling.
There are about 12 Teslas on the streets in and around Minneapolis. They're pretty neat, but I've already gotten over the novelty of seeing them. The short time I drove one was a blast though.
17 Mazda6 Touring
18 Mazda3 iSport
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!
Image
Post Reply