Tow Missiles?

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Tow Missiles?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Ford, Ram quarrel over heavy-duty pickup towing title

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Ford Motor Co. is threatening legal action if Ram keeps claiming that its pickups offer "best-in-class" towing.

Ram's response? In so many words, it's telling Ford to go pound sand.

At issue is Ford's claim in mid-July that a 2015 F-450 4x4 Crew Cab pickup can tow 31,200 pounds.

That is 1,200 pounds -- about the weight of a good-sized horse -- more than the Ram 3500's highest towing capacity of 30,000 pounds in a 4x2 Regular Cab pickup. So Ford claims the "best-in-class" towing crown for heavy-duty pickups.

But it's not that simple, thanks in part to the unique way Ford calculates maximum payload.

Ram says the F-450 and the Ram 3500 aren't in the same class. It says the F-450 is a larger, Class 4 pickup -- in fact, the only Class 4 pickup offered by any automaker.

Ram says the Ram 3500 competes directly with Class 3 pickups -- such as the Ford F-350 and GMC Sierra 3500 -- and outpulls them.

The dispute may seem like just a marketing tug-of-war, but the stakes couldn't be higher. Towing capability is among the top reasons buyers purchase heavy-duty pickups, automakers say. And heavy-duty pickups represent 23 percent of total pickup sales in the United States through June, according to TrueCar.com.

At an average transaction price north of $50,000 for each pickup, billions of dollars in sales are on the line.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014072 ... 9274467E4R
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by theholycow »

So...nearly 23% of the market does extremely heavy towing? Or buys based on hypothetical heavy towing...
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Re: Tow Missiles?

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theholycow wrote:So...nearly 23% of the market does extremely heavy towing? Or buys based on hypothetical heavy towing...
"Eh mahn, thass pretty heavy, mahn!"
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Re: Tow Missiles?

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theholycow wrote:So...nearly 23% of the market does extremely heavy towing? Or buys based on hypothetical heavy towing...
It's 23% of the total pickup sales, so not ALL auto sales.

Less seriously, you mean you don't have people that live near you with dually F-250/350 Dodge 2500/3500 (I haven't bothered to see which exact ones they have) where there is only ever one person in the giant truck and they drive them every day?? What's wrong with your neighbors?!? I'm fairly certain those people live together in an apartment at my complex and both drive massive pickup trucks. They always park next to each other (to give them credit, they do park about as well as you can with a vehicle that large) in the same couple of spots.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by AHTOXA »

There are people around here that daily lifted F250s that have never seen much pulling. They might pull the family boat 5 times a year, and that's it.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

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AHTOXA wrote:There are people around here that daily lifted F250s that have never seen much pulling. They might pull the family boat 5 times a year, and that's it.
The amount of money spent on fuel for one of those vehicles compared to a smaller daily vehicle like a Civic/Focus/Sonic/etc... is not small. Not enough to buy a new vehicle, but certainly not pocket change. For example, if gas is $3.75, and a car gets 30 mpg compared to a truck getting 15 mpg, using that car for 1200 miles/month will save you $1,800/year. It also would not be difficult to find a car getting 30 mpg or better, now, so you could even make the money saved larger.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by tankinbeans »

I'm happy I don't need a vehicle capable of towing a billion pounds.

Tristan wouldn't want to feed it everyday. Tristan can rent a truck if he needs one, thanks be to dog.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

I'll see you 1,200 lbs towing and raise you one MPG.

Ford's new F-150 takes aim at Ram's highway mpg crown

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014072 ... 9274467E4R

Wow Why all this hot competition in the Pick-m-Up wars?

Posh pickup trucks can top $70,000

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/car ... g/2877341/

Oh, I get it, it's a profit thang.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by theholycow »

Squint wrote:
theholycow wrote:So...nearly 23% of the market does extremely heavy towing? Or buys based on hypothetical heavy towing...
It's 23% of the total pickup sales, so not ALL auto sales.

Less seriously, you mean you don't have people that live near you with dually F-250/350 Dodge 2500/3500 (I haven't bothered to see which exact ones they have) where there is only ever one person in the giant truck and they drive them every day?? What's wrong with your neighbors?!? I'm fairly certain those people live together in an apartment at my complex and both drive massive pickup trucks. They always park next to each other (to give them credit, they do park about as well as you can with a vehicle that large) in the same couple of spots.
It said "Towing capability is among the top reasons buyers purchase heavy-duty pickups, automakers say. And heavy-duty pickups represent 23 percent of total pickup sales" and I was running facetiously with it.

There are plenty of office-dwellers commuting in class 2/3 full size pickups here. If you want to summon one, pull up to a island-separated right turn...immediately, such a truck will arrive in the left-turn lane and pull up well beyond the stop line to prevent you from being able to see.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

theholycow wrote:
Squint wrote:
theholycow wrote:So...nearly 23% of the market does extremely heavy towing? Or buys based on hypothetical heavy towing...
It's 23% of the total pickup sales, so not ALL auto sales.

Less seriously, you mean you don't have people that live near you with dually F-250/350 Dodge 2500/3500 (I haven't bothered to see which exact ones they have) where there is only ever one person in the giant truck and they drive them every day?? What's wrong with your neighbors?!? I'm fairly certain those people live together in an apartment at my complex and both drive massive pickup trucks. They always park next to each other (to give them credit, they do park about as well as you can with a vehicle that large) in the same couple of spots.
It said "Towing capability is among the top reasons buyers purchase heavy-duty pickups, automakers say. And heavy-duty pickups represent 23 percent of total pickup sales" and I was running facetiously with it.

There are plenty of office-dwellers commuting in class 2/3 full size pickups here. If you want to summon one, pull up to a island-separated right turn...immediately, such a truck will arrive in the left-turn lane and pull up well beyond the stop line to prevent you from being able to see.
How DO they do that?
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Ford Super Duty May Get Higher Trim Level

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The Ford F-250 Platinum starts at $55,510, and with additional options the price quickly can escalate to close to $70,000. Prices climb even higher for F-350 and F-450 models.

Even with such high-end trucks available, Doug Scott, Ford truck marketing manager, says there may be room for an even more upscale trim level.

“I think there is an opportunity above Platinum in Super Duty,” he tells WardsAuto during a Super Duty media event here. “We just have to figure out what that is and how can we put an offering together that adds value for the customer. When you have a loyal owner base like we do there are always customers that are looking for an F-Series nobody, or few others, have.”

http://wardsauto.com/auto-makers/ford-s ... trim-level

and here I am, concerned with the price of wheel bearing replacement and such.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by watkins »

If I ever buy a full sized truck I would not buy a half ton. Never. To me there is no point. They take up as much space and use as much fuel (In Ram land, where a 5.7L Hemi can be had in any duty rating) as a 3/4 ton or single wheel one ton but do not offer the same capabilities. When I use a truck for truck things, I use the shit out of it. No reason to skimp out.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by IMBoring25 »

Ford has the option of making some F-350 HD badges. Then Ram would need to either escalate the arms race again or devise another excuse for why it's not in the same class.

Not sure how many sales are really directly attributable to wanting to buy the truck that claims the "highest towing in class" crown anyway...
watkins wrote:If I ever buy a full sized truck I would not buy a half ton. Never. To me there is no point. They take up as much space and use as much fuel (In Ram land, where a 5.7L Hemi can be had in any duty rating) as a 3/4 ton or single wheel one ton but do not offer the same capabilities. When I use a truck for truck things, I use the shit out of it. No reason to skimp out.
Don't assume the same shell and the same engine gives the same mileage. In addition to the weight difference, the heavier-chassis trucks will typically have lower gearing, a transmission less optimized for fuel economy, and fewer of the tech tricks that boost the economy in the trucks the EPA cares about right now (in your given case, the Ram 1500 has an 8-speed auto vice a 6-speed for the 2500, stop-start, active grille shutters, and available air suspension that lowers the truck at speed to reduce underbody losses). At the mileage numbers involved here, we're also talking about the range where a 1 or 2 MPG difference constitutes a pretty significant amount of money if you drive it much. On the money front, a 3/4-ton can also be expected to be more expensive to insure (trucks are already brutal, especially if you have to have 4WD) and, depending on your state, more expensive to tag. On the other-tradeoffs front, the heavier-chassis trucks will ride more firmly and likely will not handle as well.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by Squint »

I can add that the fully loaded Tundra a few years ago topped out in the upper $60,000s. We had one that sat on the lot for a couple of months because no one wanted the fully loaded version that added the plush features. I think it finally sold, but took far longer than management wanted the vehicle to stay on the lot.
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Re: Tow Missiles?

Post by tankinbeans »

Squint, was that the same Tundra that could, according to the adverts, pull a space shuttle, the moon, several small asteroids, and your step mother with no modifications?
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