Warranty Wars

Off-topic posts, quotes of the day and anything else you just would like to vent to the world. PG-13 or below PLEASE!
Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10566
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Warranty Wars

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:51 am

VW boosts 2018 warranties to 6 years/72,000 miles
http://www.autonews.com/article/2017092 ... ce-scandal
HYUNDAI SEZ: "I'll see you and I'll raise you!"
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/assurance/am ... ranty.aspx

OK, so it is not an entirely apples-to-apples comparrison, and Hyundai's warranty wasn't improved to counter VW's announcement, and warranty is a sales ploy, like no-money-down, or 0 % interest - it has nothing to do with the quality, durability, reliability, etc. of the vehicles except to say that consumers losses are somewhat covered.

I still remember that my Dad's '69 Chevy Impala wagon had a 5 year warranty and his brother's '70 Impala wagon had a 1 year warranty, because in 1971, when they both had water pump failures, my dad's repair bill was covered and my uncle's was not. My uncle put a lot more miles on his cars than my dad did, so by that time their odometer mileage was about equal. The waterpump quality wasn't better or worse because of the length of the warranty that Chevy offered.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
watkins
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15697
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:42 am
Cars: 1999 Saab Viggen
Location: Salem, MA

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby watkins » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:24 pm

The only thing warranty does is frustrate technicians. There are of course exceptions wherein the tech can make serious money on certain repairs if theyre good enough at them. Take WK/WD 3.6 timing cover reseals or electric steering rack replacements as solid examples.
Image

User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15990
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby theholycow » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:54 pm

I used to like long factory warranties and buying longer extended warranties for that security blanket feeling...then I found that they never cover the broken thing I expected to be covered, and meanwhile they limit how I can enjoy the car for fear of running afoul of the warranty's requirements. Nowadays I'd just as soon have a minimal warranty to prove the car wasn't delivered with a defect and maybe some recall-style voluntary free repairs for things that turned out to be design/manufacture deficiencies later (motivated by not wanting a market reputation for some crap issue; yes, this DOES happen).

However, if I was buying instead of leasing in 2008 I would have chosen the Jeep Patriot for its lifetime powertrain warranty over the VW Rabbit. I'd have 250,000 miles on it by now and if a major powertrain failure happened then they'd be on the hook for it. The price was right and I could stay inside of the rules for that. They didn't keep that marketing gimmick for long, so presumably it wasn't expected to pay off in continuous use.

That all said...when a company can consistently deliver a long warranty along with a very competitive price, that does seem to indicate some evidence-based confidence in their product's design and manufacture. Hyundai has had their "America's Best Warranty" for the past 20 years and consistently delivered competitive products at low prices. If it was costing them much then they either would have to raise prices or lose money.
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD

IMBoring25
Moderator
Posts: 3283
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: OK, USA

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby IMBoring25 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:54 pm

People seem to perceive cars as a lot less reliable than they are. If warranty sells some extra cars and induces some extra people to do regular dealer maintenance, it might even be a money-maker. It's worth noting that there's a big caveat on the Hyundai powertrain warranty...It is non-transferrable unless the vehicle is CPO, so with first owners averaging 6.5 years, the exposure under the powertrain warranty for the majority of vehicles isn't that long.

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3776
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6, 03 Century
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby tankinbeans » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:03 pm

There are a number of dealer chains in Minnesota that offer limited lifetime powertrain warranties on all vehicles sold regardless of manufacturer or used status. An F&I guy who stated he "wasn't a product specialist" pretty much said with all the computers running things the interior oily bits, which the warranty would cover, are rarely the cause of failure.

Don't know how much to believe him since he was the F&I guy though.
17 Mazda6
03 Century
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!

User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15990
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby theholycow » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:46 pm

He's not wrong. It's exceedingly rare for those bits to wear out or fail like that. Most cars go to the junkyard with that stuff still good for another zillion miles.

That's why I sometimes rant against the machine in "gotta do 3,000 mile oil changes with 300 dollar oil and filter" discussions...spend your excessive maintenance money/effort on stuff that actually wears out or breaks and tends to be ignored, like transmission fluid.
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD

User avatar
Bill B
Senior Standardshifter
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:32 pm

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby Bill B » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:44 pm

I remember back in the 70's when automakers offered 12 months or 12 mile warrantys. Could have used a longer warranty on my dad's 78 Chevette. VW offering a decent warranty that can be transfered to the next owner is a step in the right direction for the company. Have not personally owned any VW's other than the old aircooled models. We have auto dealers here in Cincinnati doing commercials that say they offer lifetime mechanical protection even on some pre-owned vehicles. There has to be some catch or way that they end up charging the customer.
Bill Berckman
West Chester, Ohio
2007 Honda Element EX AWD 5 Speed MT

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10566
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:19 pm

Bill B wrote:I remember back in the 70's when automakers offered 12 months or 12 mile warrantys. Could have used a longer warranty on my dad's 78 Chevette. VW offering a decent warranty that can be transfered to the next owner is a step in the right direction for the company. Have not personally owned any VW's other than the old aircooled models. We have auto dealers here in Cincinnati doing commercials that say they offer lifetime mechanical protection even on some pre-owned vehicles. There has to be some catch or way that they end up charging the customer.

Often, the catch is that you are required to change oil at that dealership's service department, at undiscounted prices, and at a short time/mileage interval, such that the amount you've overpaid for the oil changes would have more than covered the repair bills.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
tankinbeans
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 3776
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:04 pm
Cars: 17 Mazda6, 03 Century
Location: Shakopee, MN

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby tankinbeans » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:21 pm

My mom used to geek out and like look at old car stickers. On them were 3 month / 3000 mile warranties. Now she watches old car propaganda and Jam Handy videos on YouTube. The 1938 Ford V8 good for 68 "effortless horsepower" is fun to watch.
17 Mazda6
03 Century
InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!

User avatar
potownrob
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 7241
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:35 pm
Cars: '16 Golf; '07 Altima
Location: Dutchess County

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby potownrob » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:27 pm


"Don't make a deal til you take the wheel of a great big 41 Ford!!" :lol:
revolutionary fingertip shifting at 2:26 :o

couldn't find the 38 ford vids you mentioned about, tank :cry:
FÜR DIE FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

For Pizza!!!!

User avatar
watkins
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15697
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:42 am
Cars: 1999 Saab Viggen
Location: Salem, MA

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby watkins » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:07 pm

theholycow wrote:He's not wrong. It's exceedingly rare for those bits to wear out or fail like that. Most cars go to the junkyard with that stuff still good for another zillion miles.

You would not believe the things that break inside of the Pentastar
Image

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10566
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby Rope-Pusher » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:37 pm

watkins wrote:
theholycow wrote:He's not wrong. It's exceedingly rare for those bits to wear out or fail like that. Most cars go to the junkyard with that stuff still good for another zillion miles.

You would not believe the things that break inside of the Pentastar

Back in the days when Chrysler was partnering with Mitsubishi, they sometimes ran Mitsubishi engines to power the transmission dynamometer durabiity testing. One of the test technicians told me that the Mitsubishi engines were very consistent, with nothing failing "Early" during the dyno testing, but if they were designed for 100,000 miles, then at 110,000 miles just about everything in the engine was worn out.

and then from my BIL, who wrenches for UPS during the day and for friends and neighbors in the evenings and weekends: when he sees a Mitsubishi engine with a certain failure mode, he runs, not walks, the the junkyard to look for a replacement part, because many Mitsubish engines, from multiple model years, will exhibit the same failure mode and the junkyards will get picked clean of cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds, camshafts, whatever it is that needs to be replaced. An engine engineer friend of mine confirms the reason why this is so. It seems that Mitsubishi worked hard to develop their engine designs prior to starting volume production, but then left them alone with whatever faults their customers found and didn't take any efforts to cure those faults but instead worked to eliminate them from their next generation of engines.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15990
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby theholycow » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:07 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:he runs, not walks, the the junkyard to look for a replacement part, because many Mitsubish engines, from multiple model years, will exhibit the same failure mode and the junkyards will get picked clean of cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds, camshafts, whatever it is that needs to be replaced.

Although your story stands on its own, this bit...well, this part is pretty typical for junkyarding. Every manufacturer and model has its problem items that are always the first parts promptly picked from new meat. In this modern age of texting and huge corporate franchises, at least you can get nigh-instant notification when a local yard gets a donor. Just drop everything and leave your cow-orkers hanging, and you can grab that pesky thingy (if the car managed to have a decent one on its way in to the yard). With a popular car, you can see dozens of the same model missing the one item.

I've experienced it a zillion times and I wish I could remember some examples.
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD

Rope-Pusher
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 10566
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Cars: '08 Jeep Liberty
Location: Greater Detroit Area

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby Rope-Pusher » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:18 pm

theholycow wrote:
Rope-Pusher wrote:he runs, not walks, the the junkyard to look for a replacement part, because many Mitsubish engines, from multiple model years, will exhibit the same failure mode and the junkyards will get picked clean of cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds, camshafts, whatever it is that needs to be replaced.

Although your story stands on its own, this bit...well, this part is pretty typical for junkyarding. Every manufacturer and model has its problem items that are always the first parts promptly picked from new meat. In this modern age of texting and huge corporate franchises, at least you can get nigh-instant notification when a local yard gets a donor. Just drop everything and leave your cow-orkers hanging, and you can grab that pesky thingy (if the car managed to have a decent one on its way in to the yard). With a popular car, you can see dozens of the same model missing the one item.

I've experienced it a zillion times and I wish I could remember some examples.

In this case, the thing is Mitsubishi has no cumpunction to come up with a permanent fix for any of the issues that crop up - if the exhaust manifolds are cracking, they will crack every model year until that engine goes out of production. Kinda like every Cavalier you ever saw had a muffler that waved to you because the general didn't care to fix the issue. I would submit to you that as a customer, one, or two, would hope that if you bought one a year or two newer that they wouldn't fail that way like the older ones did.
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"

User avatar
theholycow
Master Standardshifter
Posts: 15990
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
Cars: '80 Buick LeSabre 4.1 5MT
Location: Glocester, RI
Contact:

Re: Warranty Wars

Postby theholycow » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:21 am

Rope-Pusher wrote:In this case, the thing is Mitsubishi has no cumpunction to come up with a permanent fix for any of the issues that crop up - if the exhaust manifolds are cracking, they will crack every model year until that engine goes out of production. Kinda like every Cavalier you ever saw had a muffler that waved to you because the general didn't care to fix the issue. I would submit to you that as a customer, one, or two, would hope that if you bought one a year or two newer that they wouldn't fail that way like the older ones did.

Yeah, that's kinda a dick move!

Toyota does it too, at least sometimes...hence premature unexpected catastrophic ball joint failure at speed resulting in crashes, where Toyota does recall theater, replacing the ball joints but never improving them. I have a Tundra that was my dad's that did it to him repeatedly; I refuse to drive it, it's just a project in my yard that I'm hoping to turn into some cash -- but I feel bad about letting another one of those trucks stay on the road with that design and I WILL notify the next owner.

I really gotta finish that project. I need the money. Anyone wanna buy a 2002 Tundra beater?
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD


Return to “Rants and Raves”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests