Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

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potownrob
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by potownrob »

Shadow wrote:
potownrob wrote:yeah, the SS isn't that busy lately, not dead though (it has been at times though). makes me wonder if members are cheating on the SS, or maybe they're just busy. i go on other forums, but usually come back to check the SS, despite not even driving manual anymore. not many new members lately, that i've noticed at least. i think we had this convo before, but didn't you have another jeep recently that you hated?? i also thought you got the new gen a5 (??). either way, welcome back again.
I had a Grand Cherokee Overland (black) that was an awesome vehicle other than the shitty 8-speed automatic that never worked right. And to be honest, the new one isn't exactly perfect either. These are ZF 8 speeds that are widely used in luxury cars and they are supposedly very good transmissions. Unfortunately, FCA can't seem to get the software right on them. Oh well, at least they haven't ever left me stranded. I would have gotten another 4Runner to replace my old 2004, but I can't stomach the looks of the new 4Runner. And for whatever reason, Toyota has been with the same generation 4Runner since the 2010 model year, so the damn thing is ancient at this point. I don't know why they don't come out with a new generation already....but the old one seems to be selling stronger as it ages. Go figure.

As for the Audi, I do not like the B9 (second generation) cars at all from a styling standpoint. I do love the facelifted B8 cars (known as B8.5), so I had to get a new one before they were gone. I still really love driving the car, but I got bit by the mod bug when I purchased the new one. I did suspension (KW fully adjustable coilovers), bigger hybrid turbo & tune running adjustable boost levels (up to 25 psi), AWE quad tip exhaust (which is still quiet, but has a much nicer sound than the OEM exhaust) and a few other things here and there. So much more fun than stock.
Ok, I think you told me most of that last time, but that was a while back. That sounds like a killer setup with the a5. I like the looks overal of the current 4Runner (wasn’t it refreshed in like 2014?) but couldn’t justify the need for it vs. the drawbacks like lower mpgs. I also dig the new Tacoma but couldn’t justify the truck layout (truck bed vs interior cargo space). A manual v6 taco truck could bring me out of manual retirement if I think about it too much...
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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Shadow
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by Shadow »

So you got a new Golf with an automatic?
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potownrob
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by potownrob »

Shadow wrote:So you got a new Golf with an automatic?
yessir. It is a nice driving and riding car for an automatic compact hatchback. Plenty of pep too.
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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potownrob
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by potownrob »

ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by ClutchFork »

I don't care for a car that decides when it will shut off and restart. Every time I hear one do that at a stoplight it seems very strange. Also, it surely has to slow you down in getting off the line. Only time I would shut off the car is in a stop for a very long train (I once counted close to 200 cars on one train!). I once was in a three-hour jam for about 6 miles. Stop and go constantly and if you didn't go the guy in the next lane just might go in front of you. I would think a three-hour jam of stop and go would be very hard on the starter (and battery too perhaps) of these shut-off-at-stop cars.
Last edited by ClutchFork on Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by watkins »

In a vehicle with a quality stop/start system you hardly even notice it. Our JL is incredibly smooth because of the BSG (belt start generator), a 48 volt alternator/motor unit that takes over for the regular starter during stop/start operation. It also allows the vehicle to start moving a fraction of a second before the engine is actually running, saving time.

If it slows you down off the line, that's 100% pure operator error. If you can hit the clutch and shift in to first before a light turns green, you can twitch your big toe enough to start the engine again. If I know I'll be jumping across traffic or only have a small gap, I make sure the engine is already running.

As for a three-hour mess: Cars are smart. If it becomes a strain on the system, it simply does not get used. It's almost like the car companies don't want people bitching about major system failures regularly so there are layers of fail-safes and precise operational parameters.
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ClutchFork
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by ClutchFork »

One fail safe that Ford should have had in the 1980s was their electronic ignition modules were notorious for failing. Should have had a spare to kick in when the main one went out. Of course had they not mounted it in a very hot place, it might have actually lasted the life of the car.
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by IMBoring25 »

Our MDX has stop/start and a brake hold mode that holds the service brakes for you until you tap the gas again, which comes in handy for those long trains and long traffic lights (and leaves the brake lights on, which my usual approach of applying the parking brake does not).

There is a definite sequence to it. In most cases, the minimum amount of brake that will stop the vehicle won't trigger either system. A little more pressure will activate the brake hold, and a little more pressure than that will activate the stop/start. Knowing this, I can tell it when I think I'll be stopped long enough to gain something from the stop/start based on brake pressure.

They also turn the alternator down for more MPG, so it doesn't always stay off for long enough for a traffic light or train before the voltage sensor lights it off again, but if it does, getting started again, a little tap of the gas will restart the engine, and a second little tap of the gas will release the brakes.

It is a little extra delay if I get an opportunity to go I wasn't expecting or the stop/start triggers on a stop-sign kind of stop when I wasn't expecting it to.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by potownrob »

guess eye should be glad my car didn't come with this feature. they introduced it for the next generation, to much upsettal. you could defeat it, but you had to turn it off every time you started the car.
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by ClutchFork »

potownrob wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:27 am guess eye should be glad my car didn't come with this feature. they introduced it for the next generation, to much upsettal. you could defeat it, but you had to turn it off every time you started the car.
Are consumers just sheep? Take whatever crap the auto companies throw at them? If only consumers were informed and had the willpower to refuse to buy a car like this. Then they would stop this nonsense in a hurry.
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by potownrob »

ClutchFork wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:14 am
potownrob wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:27 am guess eye should be glad my car didn't come with this feature. they introduced it for the next generation, to much upsettal. you could defeat it, but you had to turn it off every time you started the car.
Are consumers just sheep? Take whatever crap the auto companies throw at them? If only consumers were informed and had the willpower to refuse to buy a car like this. Then they would stop this nonsense in a hurry.
Pretty much so. Enthusiasts like us (maybe not quite like clutch) may get incensed by it, but the masses seem to be gluttons for punishment. They may notice things being different, even worse in some ways, but they’ll take a prodding, grin and bear it, maybe even enjoy it…
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by ClutchFork »

potownrob wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:06 am
ClutchFork wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:14 am
potownrob wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:27 am guess eye should be glad my car didn't come with this feature. they introduced it for the next generation, to much upsettal. you could defeat it, but you had to turn it off every time you started the car.
Are consumers just sheep? Take whatever crap the auto companies throw at them? If only consumers were informed and had the willpower to refuse to buy a car like this. Then they would stop this nonsense in a hurry.
Pretty much so. Enthusiasts like us (maybe not quite like clutch) may get incensed by it, but the masses seem to be gluttons for punishment. They may notice things being different, even worse in some ways, but they’ll take a prodding, grin and bear it, maybe even enjoy it…
Sad times for America and not just car stuff.
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theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by potownrob »

Amen brother Clutch 8)
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by watkins »

ClutchFork wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:14 am
potownrob wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:27 am guess eye should be glad my car didn't come with this feature. they introduced it for the next generation, to much upsettal. you could defeat it, but you had to turn it off every time you started the car.
Are consumers just sheep? Take whatever crap the auto companies throw at them? If only consumers were informed and had the willpower to refuse to buy a car like this. Then they would stop this nonsense in a hurry.
Consumers aren't going to win against government regulations. Especially environmental regulations on a literal global scale. Even more so when most people don't actually care because there really isn't anything to complain about for the vast majority of drivers.
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Re: Everything you NEVER Wanted to Know About Stop/Start

Post by ClutchFork »

watkins wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:55 am
ClutchFork wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:14 am
potownrob wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:27 am guess eye should be glad my car didn't come with this feature. they introduced it for the next generation, to much upsettal. you could defeat it, but you had to turn it off every time you started the car.
Are consumers just sheep? Take whatever crap the auto companies throw at them? If only consumers were informed and had the willpower to refuse to buy a car like this. Then they would stop this nonsense in a hurry.
Consumers aren't going to win against government regulations. Especially environmental regulations on a literal global scale. Even more so when most people don't actually care because there really isn't anything to complain about for the vast majority of drivers.
True. The majority just want to get from point A to point B with as much comfort and techno gadgetry as possible. They have no idea what size their engine is so long as it performs.
Stick shiftin since '77
theholycow wrote:Why in the world would you even want to be as smooth as an automatic? Might as well just drive an automatic...
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