Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

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tankinbeans
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans »

I'm a bit late to this party, but having driven an Edge with the 2.0turbo found in the Escape, Fusion, Focus ST (and in a very limited number of older current generation Explorers and Flexes) I was surprised that it could get out its own way as well as it did. My friend, who owns said Edge has reported that he's seen 37 mpg going down to Iowa.

I've seen reports that the 2.3 turbo found in the Focus RS and Muskrat will be either the base or an upgrade in the Explorer. I'd be curious how well that number does since the Explorer (much more so than the Edge) is a bit of a porker.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Is Chicago mechanics' strike the first of many?- Autoweek
Manufacturers emphasize need for techs, but hours, pay scale don't attract talent

Brian Ilic, a mechanic on strike with Local 701, said management made their offer on the evening of July 31, the same day that the prior three-year contract expired.
"I feel they thought if we were given a last minute decision we would take the subpar offer and not strike," Ilic said.
Mechanics are also frustrated that the dealers failed to hear out their grievances, he said.
"None of the industry problems we asked to address were even addressed. Most were what seems like just rejected with total disregard," Ilic said. "I think they felt if they threw money at it, we would be happy."


Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/ch ... z4p5G4hqJy
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Teamwork »

tankinbeans wrote:I'm a bit late to this party, but having driven an Edge with the 2.0turbo found in the Escape, Fusion, Focus ST (and in a very limited number of older current generation Explorers and Flexes) I was surprised that it could get out its own way as well as it did. My friend, who owns said Edge has reported that he's seen 37 mpg going down to Iowa.

I've seen reports that the 2.3 turbo found in the Focus RS and Muskrat will be either the base or an upgrade in the Explorer. I'd be curious how well that number does since the Explorer (much more so than the Edge) is a bit of a porker.
I'm quite intrigued by it... and the engine propositions where the base engine may make more sense that the middle trim one (N/A 3.5L). I have a feeling that this car's market is pretty niche though with problematic aspects of price (borderline thresh holds on different markets) and probably one of the few mid size SUV's with no 3rd row option. I went through the builder on what I'd "realistically" consider and do and my price was pretty comparable to a middle to moderate equipped Lincoln MKC... That may be an issue (under the assumption the MKC is based on the Edge platform and not the Escape)?
Yanno, they sell 1.25 million Jeep vehicles a year - they can't be all that bad, right?
I hope not- I'm trying hard to warm up to them. I like where the compass sits in the market- a little bigger and better equipped then subcompacts but not as big or feature laden as compacts.. I would never consider a Cherokee after reading so much negative... Grand Cherokee seems pretty good by me but the 10+ trim levels is a tangled web. Also seems astonishing to me that the price range bases at like 31k and goes up to 65k lol.

Side question not related to either brand mentioned above... do people really BUY FWD versions of SUVS?
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Yes, people really DO buy FWD versions of SUVs.
Some of the sales are in southern markets - remember Atlanta GA before the ice storm?

As you can imagine, the RWD or FWD version of an SUV is usually the model advertised at those low lease payments / purchase prices. This is another reason that Amish transmissions are often available only on low-line vehicles. The low prices lure you in, but the stealerships are hoping you decide to spend more money and "get a nice one".

It scares me to think that some of the 2WD SUV sales are customer mistakes - maybe they assumed ALL Jeep Vehicles were AWD / 4WD, and the salesman at the stealership didn't hit them over the head and have them sign a note confessing that they knew it was a 2WD when they made their purchase decision.

Hey, when the Dodge Dart hit the market with only Amish transmissions at first, there were people who bought one and then, when they went to drive it home, found out it didn't have a slushbox.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans »

The MKC is loosely related to the Escape while the MKX is related to the Edge. The MKT is related to the Explorer while the Navigater is still a thing that's related to the Expedition (I didn't even realize the Expedition was still around until I saw a new one in the showroom).

Fun part is that the MKC is offered with the 2.3 EB while the Escape is not.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Teamwork »

Rope-Pusher wrote:Yes, people really DO buy FWD versions of SUVs.
Some of the sales are in southern markets - remember Atlanta GA before the ice storm?

As you can imagine, the RWD or FWD version of an SUV is usually the model advertised at those low lease payments / purchase prices. This is another reason that Amish transmissions are often available only on low-line vehicles. The low prices lure you in, but the stealerships are hoping you decide to spend more money and "get a nice one".

It scares me to think that some of the 2WD SUV sales are customer mistakes - maybe they assumed ALL Jeep Vehicles were AWD / 4WD, and the salesman at the stealership didn't hit them over the head and have them sign a note confessing that they knew it was a 2WD when they made their purchase decision.

Hey, when the Dodge Dart hit the market with only Amish transmissions at first, there were people who bought one and then, when they went to drive it home, found out it didn't have a slushbox.
Interesting because I had a feeling that I am sure some people was hoaxed into a lower price thinking they were getting AWD but probably ended up with only 2WD... I'm sure that could actually happen.
The MKC is loosely related to the Escape while the MKX is related to the Edge. The MKT is related to the Explorer while the Navigater is still a thing that's related to the Expedition (I didn't even realize the Expedition was still around until I saw a new one in the showroom).

Fun part is that the MKC is offered with the 2.3 EB while the Escape is not.
I knew I might've gotten lost somewhere on this grapevine. Yeah the MKC basically using the Focus RS engine is a pretty interesting idea to differentiate itself. Design language wise Lincoln looks pretty good for me though I'm not so much for this automatic transmission - button system. The black label concept I wonder how that's all going though... seems like a neat idea but the premium / draw isn't there (to me at least)...
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans »

I definitely dislike the button system, even as it looks less tacky than that found it the Terrain/Equinox (which is a horizontal number instead of vertical). I imagine there's a lockout to prevent any accidental gear changes at speed, but even the column shifter of yore would be a better solution if they want more console space.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Teamwork »

tankinbeans wrote:I definitely dislike the button system, even as it looks less tacky than that found it the Terrain/Equinox (which is a horizontal number instead of vertical). I imagine there's a lockout to prevent any accidental gear changes at speed, but even the column shifter of yore would be a better solution if they want more console space.
Did you see the GMC terrain "automatic shifter"?
Image
I think I would prefer the button pressing over this but eh- is it really saving that much console space by doing stuff like this and eliminating parking brakes? I've used column shifters (from the steering wheel) before and I honestly think I prefer that over the traditional knobs even.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans »

That's the one. Super tacky and unnecessary. Column shifters are just fine in every application I've ever used them. Even the one in the F150 works pretty well that the manually shifting is a bit of a joke.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

tankinbeans wrote:That's the one. Super tacky and unnecessary. Column shifters are just fine in every application I've ever used them. Even the one in the F150 works pretty well that the manually shifting is a bit of a joke.
Yever see "The Blues Brothers"?

They never mention it, but it's got a cop column shift, too!
(Automakers often engineer a column shifter just for the cop-car versions they sell of cars the mere mortals have to take a console shifter. With all their communication gear inside, the cops needed the extra space on the console.)
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by IMBoring25 »

Expedition is indeed still around. My mom just bought one, 2WD at that. Really nice truck and the 3.5L is serious business. I drove it for a family vacation and there's a chance I've still put most of the miles on it. I would not describe manually shifting any class vehicle "a joke." It was great in the mountains and towing the PWC to drop it into "M" and dial up exactly the amount of engine braking I wanted (or coerce it to hold a gear it otherwise wouldn't have).

Conversely, I had a Chrysler 200 rental car with a rotary knob with only "D" and "L" positions that I also drove in the mountains, on a business trip. It was always in the wrong gear and I really had to think to avoid confusing it for the fan speed knob right next to it on the console and about the same size. For 2018 the Expedition has gone to the same idiocy, complete with a similarly-potentially-confusing drive mode selector adjacent.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob »

Teamwork wrote:
tankinbeans wrote:I definitely dislike the button system, even as it looks less tacky than that found it the Terrain/Equinox (which is a horizontal number instead of vertical). I imagine there's a lockout to prevent any accidental gear changes at speed, but even the column shifter of yore would be a better solution if they want more console space.
Did you see the GMC terrain "automatic shifter"?
Image
I think I would prefer the button pressing over this but eh- is it really saving that much console space by doing stuff like this and eliminating parking brakes? I've used column shifters (from the steering wheel) before and I honestly think I prefer that over the traditional knobs even.
eye weep for the future :cry:

they could've at least moved the +/- buttons to the left, not that most people would use them anyway...
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by potownrob »

Rope-Pusher wrote:Yanno, they sell 1.25 million Jeep vehicles a year - they can't be all that bad, right?
that doesn't mean they're all that good either... :?
ClutchFork wrote:...So I started carrying a stick of firewood with me and that became my parking brake.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by tankinbeans »

Rope, I need to watch that again. It used to be a Christmas tradition to watch Blues Brothers.
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Re: Misc Thread VI: Return of the Threadi

Post by Rope-Pusher »

potownrob wrote:
Rope-Pusher wrote:Yanno, they sell 1.25 million Jeep vehicles a year - they can't be all that bad, right?
that doesn't mean they're all that good either... :?
1.25 Million in a year does say something - a lot of folks aren't afraid to buy them.
I've owned 2 Cherokees and 2 Libertys and none of them have ever been back for warranty work, so I can't complain.

I'm sure there were a myriad of issues with the latest Cherokee because of shift quality issues with the 9-speed transmision. I know no early customers wanted those problems and expected better for the money they paid. It was under-developed. This is a problem of developing new technology that "HAS TO BE THERE!" when the new vehicle goes into mass production. All the work that goes along with production start-up is like a train that is speeding down the tracks...once you tell the engineer what his time schedule is, he's coming and you better be ready. The transmission development team is like an escape artist ties to the tracks ahead of the train, betting that they'll untie the knots, unlock the handcuffs and wriggle out of the strait jacket before the train hits them. In the case of the 9-speed, you can say they cut it too close and, while it wasn't a catastrophe, they definately got knicked by the train as they were jumping clear. It's really better to bring in new powertrain items on a vehicle that is already in production, like catching the train when it stops at a station further down the line. You don't have to get on board until you are ready. Unfortunately, with how tight everything is packaged in these modern times we live in, they tend to design the vehicle to fit the powertrain and that model already in production may need some new frame rails, crossmember, crash-testing, emissions certification, etc. if you change engines or transmissions. That's all time and money you will need to spend again when you take the now more refined transmission and carry it over into the next new model, but at least you should have happier customers overall. By now, that 9-speed has been refined and used on other models and nobody should be afraid to buy the Cherokee.
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