Toyota dumps Scion

[potownrob]

back in the say, when scion was new (or newer), i was considering a scion tC. i thought it was cool that you could personalize it on their website (and possibly order it online?? i forget), and that big glass moonroof was cool. i was comparing it to a 4 cylinder accord coupe of its vintage (~2003-2005 i think), and was having a hard time choosing between them. ultimately, i ended up getting another used car instead. the 2nd gen tC and other models were kinda unimpressive, but i was also older when they came out. if the FRS can't make it as a Toyota, then I'm not sure how it made it as a Scion. I also miss the real Celicas.

I probably did too but I realized that they had a pretty negative stigma attached to them because it wasn't "really" a celica. If I was single, and about 4 years younger I truly believe my next car would've been a Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ and I even test drove one but realistically in my head knew there was no sell. The salesman was a really nice guy, a straight shooter even- but he was also about 6'6 and probably pushing 250 lbs. I've never seen a guy look with such regret sitting next to me on a test drive. I'm pretty sure that 5 minute test drive took 5 years off his back/neck. If that car has the same FA20 in the current WRX I think it'd sell better, tenfold.

didn't they make a turbo or supercharged brz and/or frs?? i'm too lazy to look it up . i was considering the scion before it got its boy racer stigma (though they were already marketing it kind of as such), and had a hard time seeing it as a successor to the celica. if the celica from the early 90s (with the optional bigger engines) had come right before the tC, that would have been a different story. i did test drive an 88 celica all-trac, and probably would've gotten that if it had been in better shape. that thing pulled like a freight train (at least it felt that way to me way back then). the last gen celica, despite being nice (and regarded as a "civic killer" ) and on my list of potential next cars 11-14 years ago, was not the same car as the older celicas.

[Teamwork]

didn't they make a turbo or supercharged brz and/or frs?? i'm too lazy to look it up . i was considering the scion before it got its boy racer stigma (though they were already marketing it kind of as such), and had a hard time seeing it as a successor to the celica. if the celica from the early 90s (with the optional bigger engines) had come right before the tC, that would have been a different story. i did test drive an 88 celica all-trac, and probably would've gotten that if it had been in better shape. that thing pulled like a freight train (at least it felt that way to me way back then). the last gen celica, despite being nice (and regarded as a "civic killer" ) and on my list of potential next cars 11-14 years ago, was not the same car as the older celicas.

The stock supercharger was from the factory for the TC (2.4/2.5L)... I had a feeling that no one wanted to molest the BRZ or FRS in stock form and they probably figured everyone would go after market regardless. The FRS I test drove had the factory TRD intake/exhaust and it would've been a hard car to live with on a day to day basis- it was pretty loud all around but it droned so much past 30 mph. I know celica had glory days in the 80's and early 90's but I had soft spot for the post 2000 last generation. I was a really impressionable teenager that didn't have a vast knowledge of cars but I really loved the way it looked... I wanted it to be my first car. When that Celica came about in the early 2000's and Acura came out with the RSX, I was in love. I just loved the look of both of those and the high revving engines. My two favorite brands growing up were probably Toyota (Celica, Supra, MR2) and Honda (S2000, Prelude, CRX SI).

[potownrob]

didn't they make a turbo or supercharged brz and/or frs?? i'm too lazy to look it up . i was considering the scion before it got its boy racer stigma (though they were already marketing it kind of as such), and had a hard time seeing it as a successor to the celica. if the celica from the early 90s (with the optional bigger engines) had come right before the tC, that would have been a different story. i did test drive an 88 celica all-trac, and probably would've gotten that if it had been in better shape. that thing pulled like a freight train (at least it felt that way to me way back then). the last gen celica, despite being nice (and regarded as a "civic killer" ) and on my list of potential next cars 11-14 years ago, was not the same car as the older celicas.

The stock supercharger was from the factory for the TC (2.4/2.5L)... I had a feeling that no one wanted to molest the BRZ or FRS in stock form and they probably figured everyone would go after market regardless. The FRS I test drove had the factory TRD intake/exhaust and it would've been a hard car to live with on a day to day basis- it was pretty loud all around but it droned so much past 30 mph. I know celica had glory days in the 80's and early 90's but I had soft spot for the post 2000 last generation. I was a really impressionable teenager that didn't have a vast knowledge of cars but I really loved the way it looked... I wanted it to be my first car. When that Celica came about in the early 2000's and Acura came out with the RSX, I was in love. I just loved the look of both of those and the high revving engines. My two favorite brands growing up were probably Toyota (Celica, Supra, MR2) and Honda (S2000, Prelude, CRX SI).

i was mistaken about the boosted brz or frs; i saw a youtube video with a boosted one and for some reason thought they had come out with a boosted version. unlike the last gen celica, i actually test drove the RSX (both premium and type-S models). the type-s i ran out of road to test out where i was driving (didn't seem much better than the premium model); premium was nice riding but not much nicer than the 94 civic ex i had at the time. the seats in both were not especially comfortable either. i later drove a friend's premium 06 rsx (with the newer seats and facelift) and it was a hoot to drive and much more comfortable. alas, by then i had already just gotten my maxima so was not in the market. that you can remember and appreciate the supra and crx (and i guess the prelude and mr2) while not being old enough to have enjoyed them during their heyday leads me to believe you're more of a car guy than you admit.

[Teamwork]

]i was mistaken about the boosted brz or frs; i saw a youtube video with a boosted one and for some reason thought they had come out with a boosted version. unlike the last gen celica, i actually test drove the RSX (both premium and type-S models). the type-s i ran out of road to test out where i was driving (didn't seem much better than the premium model); premium was nice riding but not much nicer than the 94 civic ex i had at the time. the seats in both were not especially comfortable either. i later drove a friend's premium 06 rsx (with the newer seats and facelift) and it was a hoot to drive and much more comfortable. alas, by then i had already just gotten my maxima so was not in the market. that you can remember and appreciate the supra and crx (and i guess the prelude and mr2) while not being old enough to have enjoyed them during their heyday leads me to believe you're more of a car guy than you admit.

Yeah I'm sure plenty of the BRZ/FRS are boosted with some sort of forced induction if the guy/gal is serious and has the dough to do it. I've heard mostly positive results and the aftermarket community for that car and the WRX is vastly better then VW MK7 at the moment. I have a good friend who has the last year of the RSX Type S and he recently went full on out with a supercharger, exhaust, intake, and tune. I've got to experience that car before and after and I honestly think the car is harder to daily now on Long Island. Before hand I thought that car was a pretty happy medium. He babies that thing also so for a decade old car it looks ageless and fits right into 2016's landscape. I barely ever see Celica's anymore around here of any generation... I feel like those went the way of the wind.

CRX and Supra's are unicorns but I was raised predetermined for being a car enthusiast (you should see my match box collection and models). I never really had money when I was a teenager (or I managed my money better, building savings accounts and investment funds) so I got into the game pretty late ultimately. I still loved this body style for the prelude and still resent Honda deeming the Accord coupe was "perfectly sufficient" as a replacement.

[potownrob]

I have a good friend who has the last year of the RSX Type S and he recently went full on out with a supercharger, exhaust, intake, and tune. I've got to experience that car before and after and I honestly think the car is harder to daily now on Long Island. Before hand I thought that car was a pretty happy medium. He babies that thing also so for a decade old car it looks ageless and fits right into 2016's landscape. I barely ever see Celica's anymore around here of any generation... I feel like those went the way of the wind.[/img]

which part of LI are you in?? i have friends in nassau county and couldn't really picture daily driving an rsx type-s there. a premium version, sure, but not the type-s. as for the celica, i haven't seen hardly any in the past 5 years. i used to see them a lot 10-15 years back, but not these days.

[Teamwork]

I have a good friend who has the last year of the RSX Type S and he recently went full on out with a supercharger, exhaust, intake, and tune. I've got to experience that car before and after and I honestly think the car is harder to daily now on Long Island. Before hand I thought that car was a pretty happy medium. He babies that thing also so for a decade old car it looks ageless and fits right into 2016's landscape. I barely ever see Celica's anymore around here of any generation... I feel like those went the way of the wind.[/img]

which part of LI are you in?? i have friends in nassau county and couldn't really picture daily driving an rsx type-s there. a premium version, sure, but not the type-s. as for the celica, i haven't seen hardly any in the past 5 years. i used to see them a lot 10-15 years back, but not these days.

I am out of Nassau County actually- on the border of North Bellmore and Wantagh to be exact. Driving a manual transmission around here is hardly the norm I'd say but there out there. The problem is the volume of traffic and cars during "rush hours" is ridiculous. I could literally shuffle 1st and 2nd gear (if I'm lucky) down a 2 mile main road between the hours of 4-6 pm and it'll take 45 minutes. It's just kind of comes with the territory I guess... I remember someone questioned in my "Refining thread" if we have stop signs every 15-20 feet in consecutive fashion... I'm pretty sure most people from Nassau county could confirm this locally lol.

EDIT: And this is without saying that 30% of the traffic intersections around here are camera based bringing in millions so people will literally slam their brakes at yellow lights (me included).

[potownrob]

CRX and Supra's are unicorns but I was raised predetermined for being a car enthusiast (you should see my match box collection and models). I never really had money when I was a teenager (or I managed my money better, building savings accounts and investment funds) so I got into the game pretty late ultimately. I still loved this body style for the prelude and still resent Honda deeming the Accord coupe was "perfectly sufficient" as a replacement.

the prelude apparently got the ax due to poor sales during the last few years of production. i test drove a 2000 base prelude back in 2004-2005 (before i ended up getting a 98 maxima to replace my 94 civic), and i didn't find it that impressive. not only was it tiny inside (it looks bigger outside, especially the front end), but i didn't find the power much better than that of my mildly modified civic. the numbers make it seem like a beast, but the extra weight of the car call for a bigger (or boosted) engine. it could have been the specimen i was driving, but i was left unimpressed. i had test driven a 97 or 98 integra gs (like an ls but with leather seats and the nicer wheels), and found that more impressive, despite the non-vtec engine. even that integra didn't seem much better than my civic, but at least it had more room up front than the prelude. as sporty cars (NOT sports cars!!), they weren't as roomy as the civic, which had amongst the best ergonomics and use of space of any car i've driven. even after getting my maxima, i found the civic roomy and in many ways more fun to drive (i didn't sell the civic til 2 months after getting the maxima so was able to compare them). in my opinion, the prelude was missing some interior space, a usable back seat and more power to make it a better value.

http://www.preludeonline.com/f28/why-pr ... ed-180936/

[potownrob]

I am out of Nassau County actually- on the border of North Bellmore and Wantagh to be exact. Driving a manual transmission around here is hardly the norm I'd say but there out there. The problem is the volume of traffic and cars during "rush hours" is ridiculous. I could literally shuffle 1st and 2nd gear (if I'm lucky) down a 2 mile main road between the hours of 4-6 pm and it'll take 45 minutes. It's just kind of comes with the territory I guess... I remember someone questioned in my "Refining thread" if we have stop signs every 15-20 feet in consecutive fashion... I'm pretty sure most people from Nassau county could confirm this locally lol.

EDIT: And this is without saying that 30% of the traffic intersections around here are camera based bringing in millions so people will literally slam their brakes at yellow lights (me included).

ok, most of my friends in that group are from bellmore or north bellmore and went to mepham high school (home of the broomstick scandal). you most likely don't know them since most of them are in their early to mid 30's now. a lot of them have moved out of bellmore into wantagh, massapequa, westbury or farmingdale. when i visit, i am usually down there after the rush hour traffic, but i have memories of driving down hempstead turnpike or similar roads wondering why i didn't take the southern state instead.

[Teamwork]

ok, most of my friends in that group are from bellmore or north bellmore and went to mepham high school (home of the broomstick scandal). you most likely don't know them since most of them are in their early to mid 30's now. a lot of them have moved out of bellmore into wantagh, massapequa, westbury or farmingdale. when i visit, i am usually down there after the rush hour traffic, but i have memories of driving down hempstead turnpike or similar roads wondering why i didn't take the southern state instead.

Haha we've definitely shared the same roads before then for sure. That's pretty crazy... Hempstead Turnpike is probably up there for being one of the worst at any hour of the day period. My best friend works in the medical center and I don't know how he hasn't strangled himself or another person. I work in Plainview so I can avoid major highways like the LIE and SS but my girlfriend lives out east on the island and I'm taking pretty much every major highway to get there. I frequent all of the towns listed above though for sure... I probably have run through your group of friends before lol.

[potownrob]

ok, most of my friends in that group are from bellmore or north bellmore and went to mepham high school (home of the broomstick scandal). you most likely don't know them since most of them are in their early to mid 30's now. a lot of them have moved out of bellmore into wantagh, massapequa, westbury or farmingdale. when i visit, i am usually down there after the rush hour traffic, but i have memories of driving down hempstead turnpike or similar roads wondering why i didn't take the southern state instead.

Haha we've definitely shared the same roads before then for sure. That's pretty crazy... Hempstead Turnpike is probably up there for being one of the worst at any hour of the day period. My best friend works in the medical center and I don't know how he hasn't strangled himself or another person. I work in Plainview so I can avoid major highways like the LIE and SS but my girlfriend lives out east on the island and I'm taking pretty much every major highway to get there. I frequent all of the towns listed above though for sure... I probably have run through your group of friends before lol.

yeah, it seems easier to go north or south than east of west down there, at least in my experience. i don't visit as much as i should (this is a group of friends from college; most of us graduated in 03 or 04), but they're always going out. They like to frequent (at least in the past) croxley's, croaker's, some place called corey's, and various japanese restaurants. when i go down we often meet at one of their houses and might go to a diner (lighthouse?? embassy??) later at night. we also have been having wine tasting meets on the northern fork (i know that sounds snooty lol) and i'm the one who prefers taking the sunrise highway over the LIE (through suffolk) to get there.

[Teamwork]

the prelude apparently got the ax due to poor sales during the last few years of production. i test drove a 2000 base prelude back in 2004-2005 (before i ended up getting a 98 maxima to replace my 94 civic), and i didn't find it that impressive. not only was it tiny inside (it looks bigger outside, especially the front end), but i didn't find the power much better than that of my mildly modified civic. the numbers make it seem like a beast, but the extra weight of the car call for a bigger (or boosted) engine. it could have been the specimen i was driving, but i was left unimpressed. i had test driven a 97 or 98 integra gs (like an ls but with leather seats and the nicer wheels), and found that more impressive, despite the non-vtec engine. even that integra didn't seem much better than my civic, but at least it had more room up front than the prelude. as sporty cars (NOT sports cars!!), they weren't as roomy as the civic, which had amongst the best ergonomics and use of space of any car i've driven. even after getting my maxima, i found the civic roomy and in many ways more fun to drive (i didn't sell the civic til 2 months after getting the maxima so was able to compare them). in my opinion, the prelude was missing some interior space, a usable back seat and more power to make it a better value.

http://www.preludeonline.com/f28/why-pr ... ed-180936/

I totally missed this reply the first time around because I was viewing from my phone somehow. I never got to ride in, drive, or even sit in the interior of the last generation prelude but the exterior wasn't really a sore point for me. It looked like an appropriate and tasteful evolution from the generation that I adored as a kid. I think sales got slow as well because the competition simply got better, the key attributes of the last generation for lazier, and overall this was probably an expensive car for Honda/Acura to manufacturer overall. It was kind of the oddball, left over model from last decade when Honda was trying to be a little more mainstream and accessible. I doubt we'll ever see one again in the near future simply because Honda is satisfied with the numbers game now more than the niche markets. The Honda Accord coupe is hardly anything could attribute to sporty but it's the last of it's kind... a mid/large FWD coupe and it still sells in droves. I have a friend from socal who literally bought one of these things in 2015 riled up CVT and 4 cylinder trim for 30 grand. His heart was set on it. I can't even begin to start ranting on how hard Acura has fallen- another brand that I didn't particularly mind. The ILX when I was making the rounds 6-7 months ago was one of the worst cars relative to price I've test driven. The dealership experience was very nonchalant as well which didn't help but even if they reduced that thing to 25-26k I still thought it'd be a hard sell. I tried warming up to the exterior but I couldn't in person either, and the interior literally reminded me of the Civic with a little more color variety and just as many hard touches. I'm very familiar with the Civic for the last 6 years and 2 generations because it's all my girlfriend drives in leases . I feel like we have similar tastes in vehicles and to be honest I highly considered the car that you have now. It wasn't that I didn't like it or didn't want it but I had a bad taste in my mouth within the idea of buying a brand new car without being able to test drive one. I understand it's factory order only, and an incredible small % of uptake within the model but I still wasn't comfortable enough to order it and take that leap of faith. I'm sure I would've ended up satisfied but the Ford Fiesta ST for me was in the same light. A dozen of "professional" gloating reviews but a unicorn to find anywhere in any dealership. I was also ready to push the envelope into something more sporting while I still had the chance to make some compromises in that area.

yeah, it seems easier to go north or south than east of west down there, at least in my experience. i don't visit as much as i should (this is a group of friends from college; most of us graduated in 03 or 04), but they're always going out. They like to frequent (at least in the past) croxley's, croaker's, some place called corey's, and various japanese restaurants. when i go down we often meet at one of their houses and might go to a diner (lighthouse?? embassy??) later at night. we also have been having wine tasting meets on the northern fork (i know that sounds snooty lol) and i'm the one who prefers taking the sunrise highway over the LIE (through suffolk) to get there.

It is for the most part pretty true. It's not that the LIE and SS deserve bad rap sheets but they are simply highways that were probably produced with intentions spanning over 70-80 years ago (if not even longer). The volume of population and vehicles since then it's just hard to support the mere amount of cars merging and getting off this thing during busy points of the day. It also takes a toll on the road condition itself... I'm fair about Nassau County though. Our roads aren't construction sites like Queen's and Whitestone yet but it's heading that direction and if you ask any baby boomer who grew up more west towards Manhattan and moves to Nassau County they are usually the first one's to make this direct link. To stay relative to this forum I wasn't really thrown into the fire learning and experiencing manual transmission (I had my lease and my current car for one month together) but if I was I'd probably have a huge phobia from anxiety built around here. I had enough time to pad myself late at night when the roads really empty out and I can really be a novice and take things slow.

I've been to all of the places listed above so you, your friends, and myself- we've probably shared many of the same spots and roads. When you come back around here if you're a diner aficionado (which comes with the territory of Nassau County) you should try out "East Bay" in Wantagh and Massapequa Diner on Sun Rise Highway.

[potownrob]

I totally missed this reply the first time around because I was viewing from my phone somehow. I never got to ride in, drive, or even sit in the interior of the last generation prelude but the exterior wasn't really a sore point for me. It looked like an appropriate and tasteful evolution from the generation that I adored as a kid. I think sales got slow as well because the competition simply got better, the key attributes of the last generation for lazier, and overall this was probably an expensive car for Honda/Acura to manufacturer overall. It was kind of the oddball, left over model from last decade when Honda was trying to be a little more mainstream and accessible. I doubt we'll ever see one again in the near future simply because Honda is satisfied with the numbers game now more than the niche markets.

i never drove an older prelude but i rode in one from the mid to late 80s. i didn't remember it being as small feeling, but most cars were small back then so maybe i just was used to it. it did seem to have more of that traditional honda character though that was removed from newer hondas. one thing to note is that the last gen prelude had a lot of technology that other cars didn't. they used that car (and the nsx and probably other acuras and the s2k) to showcase things like noise cancelling stereo technology and all wheel steering (also present on certain older preludes, IIRC). despite many people loving their preludes, it was not a car for the masses. i personally would take a V6 manual accord over a prelude, even if its chassis isn't as exciting.

The Honda Accord coupe is hardly anything could attribute to sporty but it's the last of it's kind... a mid/large FWD coupe and it still sells in droves. I have a friend from socal who literally bought one of these things in 2015 riled up CVT and 4 cylinder trim for 30 grand. His heart was set on it. I can't even begin to start ranting on how hard Acura has fallen- another brand that I didn't particularly mind. The ILX when I was making the rounds 6-7 months ago was one of the worst cars relative to price I've test driven. The dealership experience was very nonchalant as well which didn't help but even if they reduced that thing to 25-26k I still thought it'd be a hard sell. I tried warming up to the exterior but I couldn't in person either, and the interior literally reminded me of the Civic with a little more color variety and just as many hard touches. I'm very familiar with the Civic for the last 6 years and 2 generations because it's all my girlfriend drives in leases .

yeah, the ILX has gotten better with the refresh, from what i can tell, but it's still essentially a last gen civic underneath, and it doesn't even have the LSD of the Si (dude, where's my drugs?! ). not to mention it's small inside (note: i'm NOT small). the TLX seems to be a better car, but they seem to have shot themselves in the foot in getting rid of both the TSX and the TL and replacing them with the TLX. Despite the TSX being small inside and the 2nd gen arguably not as fun as the 1st gen, it was said to be leaps and bounds nicer to drive than the ILX. The TL may have been an old boat based on the 8th gen (black sheep) accord, but it was a very good car and actually had a nice back seat. With the TLX they've made a car that is too small for a real family (or big people like me) and competes too closely to the accord (which it's not even meant to compete with). you have to move up to the RLX to get a decent sized acura sedan, and that model isn't cheap. you can get a top of the line accord touring with leather, the V6 and other goodies not even available on the base TLX, for less than a 4 cylinder TLX. the TLX IS said to be a nicer car to drive (overall at least) than even a highend accord though.

I feel like we have similar tastes in vehicles and to be honest I highly considered the car that you have now. It wasn't that I didn't like it or didn't want it but I had a bad taste in my mouth within the idea of buying a brand new car without being able to test drive one. I understand it's factory order only, and an incredible small % of uptake within the model but I still wasn't comfortable enough to order it and take that leap of faith. I'm sure I would've ended up satisfied but the Ford Fiesta ST for me was in the same light. A dozen of "professional" gloating reviews but a unicorn to find anywhere in any dealership. I was also ready to push the envelope into something more sporting while I still had the chance to make some compromises in that area.

well, hate to break it to you, but the accord sport manual is NOT a factory order only car. they are indeed rare, especially in your area or other parts close to NYC, but they do exist and they do show up at dealers. i had to wait two weeks for my dealer (kingston ny) to get one in. i test drove an LX CVT and a Sport CVT but am glad I waited on the manual. it is much more fun to drive than the CVT. i had also driven a honda fit EX manual and almost got that, but the accord is much nicer overall (other than not having some of the cool features of the fit EX like smart entry and keyless start).

It is for the most part pretty true. It's not that the LIE and SS deserve bad rap sheets but they are simply highways that were probably produced with intentions spanning over 70-80 years ago (if not even longer). The volume of population and vehicles since then it's just hard to support the mere amount of cars merging and getting off this thing during busy points of the day. It also takes a toll on the road condition itself... I'm fair about Nassau County though. Our roads aren't construction sites like Queen's and Whitestone yet but it's heading that direction and if you ask any baby boomer who grew up more west towards Manhattan and moves to Nassau County they are usually the first one's to make this direct link.

i was actually referring to local roads north-south vs east-west, but the north-south highways are also quicker in my experience, and not just due to the shorter distances between the north and south shores. this is just my experience and it's mainly at night after or at the tail-end of rush hour traffic. i do like the look and feel of the older highways and parkways. have you ever looked up or researched about the long island motor parkway (LIMP)?? there are remnants of it throughout western LI and i think (IIRC) the weird curves of roads like the meadowbrook were from them being built over the old LIMP. my friends down there don't seem to care about it, but i think you might be into that kind of thing...

http://forgotten-ny.com/2000/07/long-is ... r-parkway/

To stay relative to this forum I wasn't really thrown into the fire learning and experiencing manual transmission (I had my lease and my current car for one month together) but if I was I'd probably have a huge phobia from anxiety built around here. I had enough time to pad myself late at night when the roads really empty out and I can really be a novice and take things slow.

i too had my old automatic car for a while after buying my first manual. i forced myself to drive mainly the manual though, and it took a good 3 months to get comfortable enough to not stall every day . i had learned to drive manual years before, and had driven random manuals here and there, but you don't really get good til you do it regularly.

I've been to all of the places listed above so you, your friends, and myself- we've probably shared many of the same spots and roads. When you come back around here if you're a diner aficionado (which comes with the territory of Nassau County) you should try out "East Bay" in Wantagh and Massapequa Diner on Sun Rise Highway.

i think i've been to massapequa diner (despite my friends preferring the lighthouse) but never to east bay. also miss hooters on hempstead turnpike (never been to the one in farmingdale though). borelli's??

[Teamwork]

i never drove an older prelude but i rode in one from the mid to late 80s. i didn't remember it being as small feeling, but most cars were small back then so maybe i just was used to it. it did seem to have more of that traditional honda character though that was removed from newer hondas. one thing to note is that the last gen prelude had a lot of technology that other cars didn't. they used that car (and the nsx and probably other acuras and the s2k) to showcase things like noise cancelling stereo technology and all wheel steering (also present on certain older preludes, IIRC). despite many people loving their preludes, it was not a car for the masses. i personally would take a V6 manual accord over a prelude, even if its chassis isn't as exciting.

I really enjoyed the aesthetics inside and outside and I think it was during a time where Honda was just starting to peak. My friend had a yellow one with the 4WS but it ended up getting totaled when rear ended at a red light. That car was kind of a nightmare for the under the table politics other then actual driving because it was also attempted fail break in when the window still trim was "wedged out" and torn up by the driver side window one night and obviously it suffered the fate of getting totaled (rear ending a yellow car ). My dad around '85-'86 was in the show rooms and was between a Prelude and Mazda 626 and went with the Mazda 626 brand new at the time (to make up for his misfire with an Isuzu Impulse). He went with the Mazda 626 and openly confesses it was one of his best car decisions he's ever made. He owned it flawlessly for 10 years only replacing a radiator which road debris ended up destroying prematurely and it ended up getting stolen out of the North Bellmore train parking lot. They never ended up finding the car until a year or two later and it was only the shell of the car as it was parted and chopped. I don't think I've seen my dad cry again since then.

yeah, the ILX has gotten better with the refresh, from what i can tell, but it's still essentially a last gen civic underneath, and it doesn't even have the LSD of the Si (dude, where's my drugs?! ). not to mention it's small inside (note: i'm NOT small). the TLX seems to be a better car, but they seem to have shot themselves in the foot in getting rid of both the TSX and the TL and replacing them with the TLX. Despite the TSX being small inside and the 2nd gen arguably not as fun as the 1st gen, it was said to be leaps and bounds nicer to drive than the ILX. The TL may have been an old boat based on the 8th gen (black sheep) accord, but it was a very good car and actually had a nice back seat. With the TLX they've made a car that is too small for a real family (or big people like me) and competes too closely to the accord (which it's not even meant to compete with). you have to move up to the RLX to get a decent sized acura sedan, and that model isn't cheap. you can get a top of the line accord touring with leather, the V6 and other goodies not even available on the base TLX, for less than a 4 cylinder TLX. the TLX IS said to be a nicer car to drive (overall at least) than even a highend accord though.

I test drove the refresh one even and still felt the same way. It wasn't even a base model but the 'middle of the line' premium package. I wanted to like it even with bias because I remember "Acura's from the past" but this model is a serious embarrassment from the sedan's in the past. I know I'm really digressing with stories but my grandfather who was a Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln guy through and through somehow got sold on the first generation TSX. It was one of his weirdest car acquisitions during his last years of life and he told me it was weird how "strong the brakes here", and how "it didn't leak engine coolant pre 40k miles". He loved it and it was honestly in my mind one of the last great Acura sedans. I remember thinking back in the day (okay I was daily driving a 1.8L N/A with 120ish hp) that the engine didn't feel like a 4 cylinder and it was so smooth to drive.

well, hate to break it to you, but the accord sport manual is NOT a factory order only car. they are indeed rare, especially in your area or other parts close to NYC, but they do exist and they do show up at dealers. i had to wait two weeks for my dealer (kingston ny) to get one in. i test drove an LX CVT and a Sport CVT but am glad I waited on the manual. it is much more fun to drive than the CVT. i had also driven a honda fit EX manual and almost got that, but the accord is much nicer overall (other than not having some of the cool features of the fit EX like smart entry and keyless start).

I stand corrected. The issue is the Honda dealerships in Nassau County are pretty much assembly line factories that aren't even trying to disguise themselves for being anything other than non-impersonal. I never ended up getting to the Accord but I knew the write up's on the sport with the manual were 'overwhelming positive'. I did test drive the Fit and Civic SI and I was left with mostly favorable impressions with a less than favorable dealership experience. One thing that made me grimace in thought was having to get stuck with those bright red and black seats as I slowly (quickly) approach 30. I'm not usually such a judgmental person with aesthetics like that but good god (but the 18 year old in me would've loved that). The Honda Fit I could've paid in full for what I was looking for so that was the draw there but I wanted to take more of a leap of faith. That is probably one of the best car's money can buy- on the initial impression nothing really struck me was low rent of cheap (being realistic of course). I hope they continue trekking onwards with the Accord sport with a manual because I might be falling into that market in the future (but please a better sound system and maybe one with actual tweeters!).

i was actually referring to local roads north-south vs east-west, but the north-south highways are also quicker in my experience, and not just due to the shorter distances between the north and south shores. this is just my experience and it's mainly at night after or at the tail-end of rush hour traffic. i do like the look and feel of the older highways and parkways. have you ever looked up or researched about the long island motor parkway (LIMP)?? there are remnants of it throughout western LI and i think (IIRC) the weird curves of roads like the meadowbrook were from them being built over the old LIMP. my friends down there don't seem to care about it, but i think you might be into that kind of thing...

I see what you're saying and mostly agree with the consensus. I'm just forced into so many of the big parkways that I'm kind of just numb from the pain. I'm sure other big city parkways experience this but I don't know if anything hurts worse then being on Long Island- getting onto the localized entrance for the SS or LIE and as soon as you can see traffic is not moving and at a stand still and you're trapped. It takes you over 30 minutes to go 2-3 miles and you realize it's because everyone's rubber necking to see a flipped SUV in a ditch... and all of a sudden you were averaging speeds of 5-8 mph and now you can openly do 80 if you wanted too... welcome to Long Island. I don't think I ever heard of the LIMP but it seems interesting. The Wantagh and meadowbrook serve their purpose but it's to a MUCH lesser volume. I honestly have been driving since 2005 and I don't think I've ever been in a stand still on either one of those. The Seaford Oyster Bay which I frequent a lot too is a decent high way with "medium/large volume" but honestly every time I get onto the LIE or SS I just pray.

i too had my old automatic car for a while after buying my first manual. i forced myself to drive mainly the manual though, and it took a good 3 months to get comfortable enough to not stall every day . i had learned to drive manual years before, and had driven random manuals here and there, but you don't really get good til you do it regularly.

I'm really glad that I wasn't thrown into the fire because I don't know if I'd be around to be writing on this forum. I think it took me 3 solid months before it wasn't a 50/50 chance of me stalling off a stop. I've never written anything about hill starts in my 'refining techniques' thread because it literally was sink or swim for me. I get off exit 10 - Plainview off the 135 and it's a moderate hill with a traffic light at the top. Sometimes I literally have to wait two lights to make it while balancing myself on a hill. If I didn't learn hill starts fast I would've probably been on the news for something bad.

i think i've been to massapequa diner (despite my friends preferring the lighthouse) but never to east bay. also miss hooters on hempstead turnpike (never been to the one in farmingdale though). borelli's??

It's really kind of crazy that we probably know mutual people and have shared the same "local" roads. Lighthouse is good and pretty much the "after Mulchay's" staple but Massapequa is definitely better food wise. I haven't been to borrelli's in a quick minute but I definitely know what it is

[potownrob]

I really enjoyed the aesthetics inside and outside and I think it was during a time where Honda was just starting to peak. My friend had a yellow one with the 4WS but it ended up getting totaled when rear ended at a red light. That car was kind of a nightmare for the under the table politics other then actual driving because it was also attempted fail break in when the window still trim was "wedged out" and torn up by the driver side window one night and obviously it suffered the fate of getting totaled (rear ending a yellow car ). My dad around '85-'86 was in the show rooms and was between a Prelude and Mazda 626 and went with the Mazda 626 brand new at the time (to make up for his misfire with an Isuzu Impulse). He went with the Mazda 626 and openly confesses it was one of his best car decisions he's ever made. He owned it flawlessly for 10 years only replacing a radiator which road debris ended up destroying prematurely and it ended up getting stolen out of the North Bellmore train parking lot. They never ended up finding the car until a year or two later and it was only the shell of the car as it was parted and chopped. I don't think I've seen my dad cry again since then.

i too loved the looks overall of the last gen prelude (along with the prior two generations, but the last gen was definitely nicer looking). unfortunately, looks aren't all that's needed to sell cars, and the masses apparently don't care much about looks (other than maybe in the case of the new accord ). the mazda 626 was much more practical than the prelude, despite not being overall as reliable from what i've read (especially the V6 models). my cousin had a late 90s 626 with the oscillating vents. other than the weak engine (2 litre??), that car was nice. he did start to have issues with it as it neared 100k miles, and he ended up getting rid of it.

I test drove the refresh one even and still felt the same way. It wasn't even a base model but the 'middle of the line' premium package. I wanted to like it even with bias because I remember "Acura's from the past" but this model is a serious embarrassment from the sedan's in the past. I know I'm really digressing with stories but my grandfather who was a Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln guy through and through somehow got sold on the first generation TSX. It was one of his weirdest car acquisitions during his last years of life and he told me it was weird how "strong the brakes here", and how "it didn't leak engine coolant pre 40k miles". He loved it and it was honestly in my mind one of the last great Acura sedans. I remember thinking back in the day (okay I was daily driving a 1.8L N/A with 120ish hp) that the engine didn't feel like a 4 cylinder and it was so smooth to drive.

yeah, when you base a luxury car on a civic, it's not gonna be the nicest ride. the tsx was based on the european accord, which was a decent car. between the shield grills (aka beak), other odd styling choices, cheaping out on details and letting honda models canibalize acura models, they have made some poor choices and are obviously not the same company they were in the 80s through mid 2000s.

I stand corrected. The issue is the Honda dealerships in Nassau County are pretty much assembly line factories that aren't even trying to disguise themselves for being anything other than non-impersonal. I never ended up getting to the Accord but I knew the write up's on the sport with the manual were 'overwhelming positive'. I did test drive the Fit and Civic SI and I was left with mostly favorable impressions with a less than favorable dealership experience. One thing that made me grimace in thought was having to get stuck with those bright red and black seats as I slowly (quickly) approach 30. I'm not usually such a judgmental person with aesthetics like that but good god (but the 18 year old in me would've loved that). The Honda Fit I could've paid in full for what I was looking for so that was the draw there but I wanted to take more of a leap of faith. That is probably one of the best car's money can buy- on the initial impression nothing really struck me was low rent of cheap (being realistic of course). I hope they continue trekking onwards with the Accord sport with a manual because I might be falling into that market in the future (but please a better sound system and maybe one with actual tweeters!).

your experience in many ways mirrors mine. i was on the fence between the Si and the Accord Sport, and the red seats were one of the things pushing me toward the accord. the main things though were that i didn't really like the exterior look of the Si sedan (but did love the coupe), and really wanted the sedan for practicality. also, the back seat was hard to get into in even the sedan. also, the Si takes premium gas. the Si was more fun to drive, with a more entertaining engine and tighter gearbox and smaller chassis etc. It also had most of the luxury features of the higher end models such as moonroof, smart entry and keyless start, powerful stereo, touchscreen stereo with apple carplay, etc. another negative was the seats, while more cushy feeling than the accords (despite being compared to accord seats), had tight side bolsters and no power adjustments like the accord sport has. as for the dealer experience, i would've tried to find another dealer if the one you went to (honda city??) was that bad.

I see what you're saying and mostly agree with the consensus. I'm just forced into so many of the big parkways that I'm kind of just numb from the pain. I'm sure other big city parkways experience this but I don't know if anything hurts worse then being on Long Island- getting onto the localized entrance for the SS or LIE and as soon as you can see traffic is not moving and at a stand still and you're trapped. It takes you over 30 minutes to go 2-3 miles and you realize it's because everyone's rubber necking to see a flipped SUV in a ditch... and all of a sudden you were averaging speeds of 5-8 mph and now you can openly do 80 if you wanted too... welcome to Long Island. I don't think I ever heard of the LIMP but it seems interesting. The Wantagh and meadowbrook serve their purpose but it's to a MUCH lesser volume. I honestly have been driving since 2005 and I don't think I've ever been in a stand still on either one of those. The Seaford Oyster Bay which I frequent a lot too is a decent high way with "medium/large volume" but honestly every time I get onto the LIE or SS I just pray.

well that explains it. yeah, i've dealt with the LIE nonsense before, though not as bad as the locals or regulars. that's part of why i like to jump down to the southern state and sunrise highway (east of your area where it's actually a highway) instead of staying on the LIE. I also find the LIE boring and have even gotten flipped off on that road before .

I'm really glad that I wasn't thrown into the fire because I don't know if I'd be around to be writing on this forum. I think it took me 3 solid months before it wasn't a 50/50 chance of me stalling off a stop. I've never written anything about hill starts in my 'refining techniques' thread because it literally was sink or swim for me. I get off exit 10 - Plainview off the 135 and it's a moderate hill with a traffic light at the top. Sometimes I literally have to wait two lights to make it while balancing myself on a hill. If I didn't learn hill starts fast I would've probably been on the news for something bad.

it really took me 6 months to get good at shifting. i think the main problem was i was overthinking things and not trusting myself to do it without conscious input. it took me several years to figure out hills; i was frightened of them for the first 4-5 years i drove manual. once i realized (or read, probably on this forum) that hill launches aren't really different from a well coordinated launch on level ground, i quickly adjusted.

It's really kind of crazy that we probably know mutual people and have shared the same "local" roads. Lighthouse is good and pretty much the "after Mulchay's" staple but Massapequa is definitely better food wise. I haven't been to borrelli's in a quick minute but I definitely know what it is

i never really thought much of lighthouse. it looked nice inside and the service was decent, but the food wasn't anything special. borelli's also i never thought much of, and my friends who still go there for special occasions even say it's not real italian food. we're usually up north in farmingdale when i come down lately, and one of my friends who lives there usually meets me at embassy diner, which i personally don't think much of.

[Teamwork]

the mazda 626 was much more practical than the prelude, despite not being overall as reliable from what i've read (especially the V6 models). my cousin had a late 90s 626 with the oscillating vents. other than the weak engine (2 litre??), that car was nice. he did start to have issues with it as it neared 100k miles, and he ended up getting rid of it.

It was the most reliable car he's ever owned and overall one of the best car purchases he ever made. The problem was in the 90's Ford was rearing it's ugly head into most of Mazda's operations. I still have hazy memories of this car because it was shared between my parents... for whatever reason after that my dad decided to punish himself with jalopies. I pretty much grew up hating Ford because of this... it was hard as hell to get him to come with me to the dealership to check out a Focus ST because his last 3 tastes of Ford were a 1990 Ford Taurus, 1992 Ford Tempo, and a 1995 Ford Escort. I'm going to give the 1990 Taurus a pass because it was deemed a lemon lawfully but those other two cars were piles of crap.

yeah, when you base a luxury car on a civic, it's not gonna be the nicest ride. the tsx was based on the european accord, which was a decent car. between the shield grills (aka beak), other odd styling choices, cheaping out on details and letting honda models canibalize acura models, they have made some poor choices and are obviously not the same company they were in the 80s through mid 2000s.

I don't think this is a valid excuse because I am a supporter of the Buick Verano and the A3 which has economy underpinnings. The civic architecture from the 9th generation isn't really that bad either speaking from first hand experience. I just didn't really understand where the money I was putting this to went exactly. The Buick Verano undercuts the ILX pretty much 2-3k every trim level and it honestly feels sophisticated up to everything minus the engine. The engine was a pig but this car really disguised well that it was a re-badge of a Chevy Cruze. I feel the same way about the A3... I think the ILX either needed to be priced closer to the Verano or quit the interior parts bin sharing with the Civic. Honda models should be cannibalizing Acura's at this point. There's really no point for this brand to be selling sedans... There's something better elsewhere in every spectrum of the map. On a side note I see the new Civic/Accord got the ugly Acura beak.

as for the dealer experience, i would've tried to find another dealer if the one you went to (honda city??) was that bad.

I went to Honda City and millennium Honda- they honestly were the same experience just different locations.

well that explains it. yeah, i've dealt with the LIE nonsense before, though not as bad as the locals or regulars. that's part of why i like to jump down to the southern state and sunrise highway (east of your area where it's actually a highway) instead of staying on the LIE. I also find the LIE boring and have even gotten flipped off on that road before .

What makes me laugh is if you live here long enough you're just used to this type of behavior and wrecklessness. What really put things into perspective is I am subscribed to 'mrregularcarreviews' and how nervous this guy gets driving in NY and California really puts things into perspective that we're pretty much borderline insane. I really wouldn't consider myself an enthusiast driver, I'll open up on a highway every so often but I never beat on my car's consistently and constantly. With this being said when I tell people who aren't around here that I regularly do 75-80 mph they probably think I'm kidding them but the reality is I'm doing those speeds to keep up and I'm getting passed even LOL. I think it's a balancing act because when we aren't going 15-20 mph over the listed speed limit we're usually going 10 mph if we're lucky.

it really took me 6 months to get good at shifting. i think the main problem was i was overthinking things and not trusting myself to do it without conscious input. it took me several years to figure out hills; i was frightened of them for the first 4-5 years i drove manual. once i realized (or read, probably on this forum) that hill launches aren't really different from a well coordinated launch on level ground, i quickly adjusted.

I feel like I followed through a similar path and things just kind of started clicking. I still have trouble shifting 1-2 smoothly consistently but I'm not like putting myself through the windshield either. I feel like the slow stuff around parking lots give me the most anxiety now because I usually have to make split second quick decisions and my mind fumbles at times. Sometimes if I panic I'll literally just put the clutch down and glide around the parking lot and put it back into 1st when I have too make an adjustment.

i never really thought much of lighthouse. it looked nice inside and the service was decent, but the food wasn't anything special. borelli's also i never thought much of, and my friends who still go there for special occasions even say it's not real italian food. we're usually up north in farmingdale when i come down lately, and one of my friends who lives there usually meets me at embassy diner, which i personally don't think much of.

I'm a foodee for sure so it really depends on what you're looking for and what budget you're willing to spend. Honestly if I ever move out of NY, I have a feeling I'm going to have to accept a downgrade of food places.